"Polish" death camp.

Discussion in 'The Holocaust' started by Dave55, May 30, 2012.

  1. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA Patron

  2. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

  3. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Seems not much of a story to me.

    Does anyone have the full text of what was said?

    Was the Pres not posthumously honouring a Polish resistance fighter, or was that just a cover & he was deliberately setting out to offend?..

    Is a slightly off-key Geographical rather than operational indicator worth the amount of outrage this seems to have generated?
    "Polish Death Camp" means 'Death camp in Poland' just as much as it could be read or perceived as 'Death Camps run by Poland'.

    Quite interesting:
    Why do some people hate the phrase ‘Polish death camps’? | Poynter.

    Campaign to eliminate media mentions of ‘Polish death camps’ claims success with AP Stylebook change | Poynter

    Pre-laid ambush waiting for prominent target to boost campaign? Who knows. I know I've used the phrase 'The Polish Death Camps' before, and I know what I meant.


    (By the way - we skirt potential wider politics here, if anyone feels like knee-jerking this away from the semantics of Death Camps and modern offence onto wider territory of US politicking, it'll die.
    Just saying like, as we all know how mentioning any US pres can set people off. :unsure: )
     
  4. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    Poor choice of words and I've seen worse. As a conciliatory gesture I offer this to restore political equilibrium and in a Polish context too to boot ;)

    dear_dalai_lama.jpg
     
  5. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    The Poles seem to be more than a bit irked by it:

    "The White House will apologize for this outrageous mistake." Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski wrote on his Twitter Inc. account. "It's a shame that such a momentous ceremony bas been overshadowed by ignorance and incompetence."

    But Sikorski is an astute judge of the US leadership, as indicated by the last three words.

    I am left to wonder what is going on in the background between the Polish government and BHO.
     
  6. Alan Allport

    Alan Allport Senior Member

    It's Political Correctness Gone Mad!

    Best, Alan
     
  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    I am left to wonder what is going on in the background between the Polish government and BHO.
    You are not alone in wondering.

    Did also cross my mind that Poland's had a bit of bad European publicity recently re 'tolerance'. Good opportunity to regain a bit of ground there maybe.
     
  8. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    It's Political Correctness Gone Mad!

    Best, Alan

    Unfortunately this is now the World that we live in.

    I too think that Political Correctness has gone way beyond what was intended.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  9. DoreenC

    DoreenC Member

    It's Political Correctness Gone Mad!


    I swear many people now spend their lives searching for something to offend them, so they can jump on it like a duck on a Junebug and demand apologies.

    Anyone with an ounce of sense might realize that Obama was not inferring that the Poles orchestrated the holocaust, FFS, no matter how anti-Semetic they were!:rolleyes:
     

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  10. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    It's just sloppy English; no harm, no foul. I don't think he's the greatest president in our history, but he doesn't really have anything to apologize for. I'm more embarrassed for the Poles and their silly over-reaction than I am for our president.

    That's one thing I admire the wartime generation for: they weren't (and aren't) so god-damned sensitive.
     
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  11. kovalski

    kovalski Junior Member

    It's just sloppy English; no harm, no foul. I don't think he's the greatest president in our history, but he doesn't really have anything to apologize for. I'm more embarrassed for the Poles and their silly over-reaction than I am for our president.

    That's one thing I admire the wartime generation for: they weren't (and aren't) so god-damned sensitive.

    I got few comments here.

    1. Polish sensivity has its roots in the fact, that they were the victims of Nazi-Germany, just like the Jews were. Unlike the Western Europeans, Polish together with other Slavonic nations were described as sub-humans and were meant to be used as a slavework force and then at the end of the day murdered in gas chambers. Perception of whole problem is different for the Western Europeans and others, because the nazi German occupation of Poland, Belorussia, Ukraine, etc., was much, much cruel and bloody than occupation of France, Netherlands or Belgium. Also the level of knowledge among the Westerners regarding the nazi oppression in Eastern Europe is minimal.

    2. Although some elements of Polish society were anti-semitic before and during the war and some people took active (direct and indirect) part in murder of Jews, it is absolutely unacceptable to make Polish responsible for the Holocaust. The Poles were among very few nations in Europe, which didn't organize military units to support nazi Germany. Unlike French, Dutch, Belgian, Spanish, Swedish, Norwegian, Ukrainian, Lithuanian, Austrian, Hungarian, Bulgarian, Croatian, etc. Polish are the largest group among the recipents of "Righteous among the Nations" title, which is awarded by Yad Vashem to people who risked their lives to save the Jews from the Holocaust.

    3. Unfortunately, the education systems in the western world do not pay much attention to the history of Eastern Europe. The lack of knowledge together with complete ignorance result in such statements as "polish death camps". Every month some ill-educated writers, journalists, etc. mention "polish death camps" (and put Polish on the same side with nazi Germany) in newspapers, tv, radio and internet. Then such false statements are being copied by even less educated people and published somwhere else. It is considered as humiliation of the Polish victims of nazi Germany, Polish state, all of those who risked their lives for the Jews and those who sacrificed themselves in war against nazi Germany. That's why polish foreign ministry is firmly reacting every single time such a lie is being published.

    It is easy to judge somebody's behavior or reaction, when one has never share experiences of the other side. The Americans, British, nor any other Western nation never suffered such occupation, was never subjected to so cruel oppression. Some people may be "embarrassed for the Poles and their silly over-reaction". I would be more embarresed for lack of empathy and understanding.
     
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  12. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Hello kovalski

    On this Forum you will find members who have a great depth of knowledge and indeed some were part and had family members affected during that terrible time.

    I understand your points.

    Obama made a mistake with his wording.


    Please be assured we are very aware of the terrible crimes against all Nations including Eastern Europe.


    regards
    Clive
     
  13. kowalskil

    kowalskil Junior Member

    Hello kovalski

    On this Forum you will find members who have a great depth of knowledge and indeed some were part and had family members affected during that terrible time.

    I understand your points.

    Obama made a mistake with his wording.


    Please be assured we are very aware of the terrible crimes against all Nations including Eastern Europe.


    regards
    Clive


    Noone thinks that Obama wanted to accuse Polish people for crimes committed by Nazis.

    Ludwik Kowalski
     
  14. canuck

    canuck Closed Account

    It's Political Correctness Gone Mad!

    Best, Alan

    Alan,
    That statement strikes me as redundant!:D
     

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