Would anyone please be able to tell me a little about the 40 Coy., Aux, Mil, Pioneer Corps. One of my local lads lost his life with this unit at Dunkirk. As ever any help would be greatly appreciated. CWGC :: Casualty Details Thanks John
Would anyone please be able to tell me a little about the 40 Coy., Aux, Mil, Pioneer Corps. One of my local lads lost his life with this unit at Dunkirk. As ever any help would be greatly appreciated. CWGC :: Casualty Details Thanks John Thats an interesting one John. 26 Companies of the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps were intended to be evacuated from St Nazaire on the Lancastria on 17 June 1940.Many were lost when the Lancastria went down after being sunk by the Lufffewaffe in the St Nazaire roads. They are remembered on the Dunkirk Memorial. It looks to me that No 40 Company were detailed to be left behind possibily for defence works in the Dunkirk perimeter. Will look further.
According to Glover in The Fight For The Channel Ports (page 77)there were over 107 companies of AMPC or more than 20 000 men in May 1940. One man in four had a rifle but in their ranks were many old soldiers. AMPC companies were involved in many actions as infantry when they managed to scrap enough rifles together. Some fought at Boulogne, some formed part of "Beauman Division." I don't know what 40 Coy did but although he is named on the Dunkirk Memorial that doesn't mean he died at Dunkirk, he could have been killed anywhere during the 1940 campaign. Sorry can't be more specific. Aha Royal Pioneer Corps & Royal Pioneer Association Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps which were wholly or partly aboard Lancastria:- • Companies numbered: 16, 26, 28, 32, 39, 40, 43, 46, 50, 52, 53, 61, 62, 63, 66, 67, 68, 73, 75, 82, 104, 108, 115, 208, 233. • Base Depot Staff. • HQ Labour Control. • No. 1 Mauritius Company. died too early for Lancastria. between 25/05/1940 and 02/06/1940
According to the RPC History (see below) the 40th Company was commanded by Major W.G. Haywood) and was part of 11 Group and was south of Lille in early May 1940. When the Blitzkrieg broke, they moved back to Dunkirk. Extract for what they did below. Source: A War History of the Royal Pioneer Corps 1939-1945 by Mjr E.H.Rhodes-Wood (Gale & Polden 1960).
Paul, that's an excellent post. Is there a Histroy you haven't got? Were they then sent back to France as that Lancastria website has them being embarked on her?
No 40 Company Aux Mil Pioneer Corps are not shown in the embarkation details in "The Loss of the Lancastria", hence my deduction that they had been left behind in the Dunkirk Perimeter.Additionally there were a number of casualties during the withdrawal of the BEF whose date of death could not be ascertained accurately and this is reflected on the graves of many of the units who fought the rearguard action and those who were directed south west for an embarkation port in western France. Many unidentified graves in the various coastal cemeteries south of the Loire carry the date of 17 June 1940 which can be related to the loss of the Lancastria on that date.I would think that a number of the dead would have been found much later than 17 June 1940 but this date is recorded on the headstones. As regards the background of the casualties, there are many of these casualties in the Pornic Military Cemetery but one was a CSM, aged 40 odd,Turpin, if I recollect, who held a MM.I think he must have seen service in the First World War and was a pre war regular. Looking at John's casualty,Clitheroe,his age is similar to a casualty whom I am aware of.Both were of a mature age,39 years old in Clitheroe's case and 37 years old in the case of a member of No 73 Company who was lost on the Lancastria.A couple of years ago I asked his son about his circumstances,he told me his father joined up in 1938 when there was unemployment in the Yorkshire coalfields.I would hazzard a guest that Pioneer Clitheroe may have had similar circumstances in County Durham.
As regards the background of the casualties, there are many of these casualties in the Pornic Military Cemetery but one was a CSM, aged 40 odd,Turpin, if I recollect, who held a MM.I think he must have seen service in the First World War and was a pre war regular. Yes here he is, CWGC :: Casualty Details Trying in vain to find him on LG for mention of MM & there are 12 Arthur Turpins on WW1 Medal Cards at TNA. I expect someone like Paul will find him.
Harry/Owen/Paul Thank you all so much for this marvellous information, it is much more than I had hoped for, thank you all for taking the time out for me, It is very much appreciated. I think Harry may be right about Pioneer Clitheroe, as the local collieries in our area were also going though a lean spell leading up to the war. I haven't found anything for Pioneer Clitheroe in the local newspapers yet, but if and when I do I will let you all know. Once again thank you all for your help. John.
101290 CLITHEROE Frank Edward (date of birth 17 Jan 02) enlisted into the RASC on 19 Sep 39 and was transferred to Pioneer Corps and joined 40 Coy in Feb 40. The CWGC gave his death between 28 May and 2 Jun 40 and have him recorded as the son of Minnie Clitheroe from Billingham, Co Durham. The following is an extract from the War Diary for 40 Coy: <TABLE class=MsoNormalTable style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; mso-table-layout-alt: fixed; mso-padding-alt: 0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 0"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 69.2pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=92>24 May 40fficeffice" /><O:p></O:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 395.1pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=527>Reveille 0500 hours and move by foot to DINKIRK and spent the night in the Casino there<O:p></O:p> </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 1"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 69.2pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=92>25 May 40<O:p></O:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 395.1pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=527>Unloading supplies from Army wagons and loading on to ships, under constant enemy air attack.<O:p></O:p> </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 2"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 69.2pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=92>26 May 40<O:p></O:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 395.1pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=527>Still loading and unloading at the docks under severe bombing. 3 killed (names not given) and others wounded by MG fire. Moved into cellars of nearby houses and spent 24 hours there under severe bombing.<O:p></O:p> </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 3"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 69.2pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=92>27 May 40<O:p></O:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 395.1pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=527>Moved to the beach at MALO LES BAINS where between 28<SUP>th</SUP> and 1<SUP>st</SUP> June there were evacuated from ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:place>France</ST1:place></st1:country-region>.<O:p></O:p> </TD></TR><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 4; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 69.2pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=92><st1:date Month="6" Day="9" Year="1940">9 Jun 40</st1:date><O:p></O:p> </TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 395.1pt; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" vAlign=top width=527>Coy reformed at WESTCLIFFE<O:p></O:p> Maj W H Haywood – OC<O:p></O:p> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> It appears, therefore, from the above that he was one of the 3 killed on 26 May. If I can help further please do not hesitate to contact me Norman Brown Controller RPC Association (royalpioneercorps@gmail.com)
I also want to add my thanks here to Norman for the excellent information he just gave me about my father's uncle. d
Many were killed at Rennes as part of the retreat towards the western coast of France. Below is an eye witness account of the attack which led to the death of my great uncle William MacDonald of Brithdir in Glamorgan who died, coincidentally on 17 June. Private 2182010 William MacDonald in the in the Auxiliary Military Pioneer Corps and was shipped to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">France</st1:country-region></st1:place>. [M.I.] <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o:p></o:p> <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t202 path="m,l,21600r21600,l21600,xe" o:spt="202" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t"></v:path></v:shapetype><v:shape id=_x0000_s1026 style="MARGIN-TOP: 0.85pt; Z-INDEX: 1; MARGIN-LEFT: 265.05pt; WIDTH: 163.95pt; POSITION: absolute; HEIGHT: 237.65pt; mso-wrap-style: none" type="#_x0000_t202"><v:textbox style="mso-fit-shape-to-text: t"></v:textbox></v:shape><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent"> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>On the Sunday 16<SUP>th</SUP> June 1940, Will was aboard a troop train comprising odd groups of British soldiers from different regiments, all apparently heading for the coast in the vicinity of St. Nazaire or St. Malo as part of<o:p> the retreat generally known as Dunkirk</o:p> Bill died the following day [Monday 17<SUP>th</SUP> June 1940] from wounds received during the attack described above and is buried in plot 1, Row A, Grave 48 at Rennes Eastern Communal Cemetery, France. [The War Office/ Commonwealth War <st1:place w:st="on">Graves</st1:place>
Eye witness account of attack at Rennes 16 June 1940 French troop trains consisted of box wagons with the words ‘Huit Chevaux ou Quarante Homme’ [8 horses or 40 men] printed on the side.<O:p</O:p Alongside the troop train were four other trains, a French & Belgian troop train, a refugee train, an ammunition train and a hospital train.<O:p</O:p It was a scorching hot day and soldiers were relaxing, shedding equipment and even taking their boots off when there was a sound of approaching <O:p</O:p aircraft. The shout went up ”Look out. This is it!” Then all hell let loose, bombs dropping, machine guns firing and everyone dashing for the doors and shouting.<O:p</O:p Many were dead, piled up on either side of the train where they had been caught in the first wave of the attack, mainly by machine-gun fire as they came out of the wagon doors. Six planes were involved in two waves of three and they made two strikes each, bombing and strafing. <O:p</O:p Following the second bomb run there was silence, broken only by the cries of the injured and dying.<O:p</O:p The comparative silence was suddenly shattered when the ammunition train started to explode. In between the loud explosions was the staccato rattle of small arms ammunition going up and flying all over the place. Smoke and heat from the burning train was unbearable. The seriously wounded, slightly wounded and dead were taken to a makeshift hospital in a school in <ST1:p<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.ww2talk.com/forum/ /><st1:City w:st=Rennes</st1:City></ST1:p.[Taken from a transcript by Sapper Charlie Wallace, 1887136 Royal Engineers. Name, Rank and Number, Experiences of a Prisoner of War in <ST1:p<st1:country-region w:st="on">Germany</st1:country-region></ST1:p 1940-1945; 1996; published by the author]<O:p</O:p
How do I find details of son of William and Mary of Brithdir, New Tredegar, Mon. Private 2182010 Auxillary Military Pioneer Corps
Hi Colin and welcome to the forum I'm not sure who your after but I think you'll need his servive records. Andy I see now your after Private 2182010 William MacDonald. What info are you after? I ask because you already know his unit so the best bet would be to get the units diary if you want an idea of what they were doing. Andy
Hi Andy, Thanks for the hint, I'll try that but I suppose what I'm really after is when he joined up and where. Colin
I've been meaning to copy this diary for ages. The Company suffered three casualties on the 26th May-One of them could be your man if you could id the other two? The circumstances of there death fits with him being remembered on the memorial. The date ranges of death are the weak link though. Unfortunately there is no BEF diary for June.
