G'day all, I'm looking into 50th Divisional Signals (again) at present - Overlord through Op Perch as usual - but have not been able to turn up any photos of the Regt. yet. This could just be that I've missed them, but I've searched the forum, IWM collections and the rest of t'internet for 50th Div Sigs and have found no photos of them in the period late '43 to mid '44. I have, of course, found Drew's excellent 'Brief History of 50th Divisional Signals' thread, and the other threads on here, but nothing with any photos of them in action in Normandy (or indeed in the UK before Overlord). I'm particularly looking to be able to note any common insignia practices within the Regiment (e.g. not wearing shoulder titles, wearing a unique Regt. patch etc), so any portraits - either studio or in the field - would be most useful. Just wondering if anyone can recommend any books on 50th Div Sigs or if there are any online photos &/or albums out there that I've somehow missed. Or indeed if anyone's got any photos of 50th Div Sigs in their own collection that they wouldn't mind sharing with me, please PM me. Any help most appreciated, All the best, Five-Five
Hello Five-Five, I would recommend that you PM, both, Mel (handle 'a well camel') and Jimmy (handle 'SignalsJimmy') about your quest. Mel, sometimes in collabortaion with Andy (handle 'Drew5233'), has put a lot of Fifty Div Signals information on this forum. Mel's father, Mel Snr, was with Fifty Div during WWII, and I understand the latter is still fit and well. Jimmy's forum profile reads: "Biography - Unit History Officer for 50 (N) Signal Squadron, descendant of 50 (N) Signal Regiment Location - Darlington Interests - 50 (N) Signal Regiment and its ancestors Occupation - TA Signals Officer..." I think you will find both very helpful. Best, Steve.
Hello Five-Five, To update Steve's post, Sig Jimmy is no longer the Unit History Officer and has moved to pastures new. I have been unable to turn up any photos for 1943/44 as yet. Those pics which are on the forum are from 1940-42 and from the collection of the late Stan Towers. The info at Darlington is also limited - no pictures apart from official groups etc. Anthony Gross was commissioned to paint 50 Div on the build up to D Day and a series of these water colours are available to view on IWM site, although I doubt they will be of help. regards mel
Hello Mel, Thank you very much for the gen - I hadn't finished composing the PM to Jimmy yet, so no probs there. Yes, I've trawled through the Anthony Gross watercolours previously and, as you correctly assumed, they do not provide anything of use due to the style in which they are done. Superb paintings, just not quite got what I'm after. Do you think the Royal Signals Archive at Blandford would have anything of the sort I'm after - portraits and the like? I shall make some enquiries and see if I can turn up anything. Thank you again for your information, I'll keep you posted on what I find (if anything). All the best, Five-Five
Found this chap - surname Martin - in the 'Liberators Captured on Film' Flickr album; Martin by Regionaal Archief Nijmegen, on Flickr Outfit isn't confirmed as 50th Div Sigs, but it seems likely and it's the best lead I've got so far. Description reads; Name: Martin Nationality: British Army Division: Royal Corps of Signals, possibly 50th (Northumbrian) Infantry Division Photo ID: KN75324 Collection: Regionaal Archief Nijmegen If anyone can happen to be able to confirm this chap to be of 50th Div Sigs that'd be marvellous. Will post anything else I can dig up. Cheers, Five-Five
Hello Five-Five Unfortunately there are very few photos of the Unit from this period in either the (now) Squadron archives or in the Corps Museum (this was back in 2009 when I last checked though). There are a few photos on the IWM archives: THE BRITISH ARMY IN THE UNITED KINGDOM 1939-45 | Imperial War Museums THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORMANDY 1944 | Imperial War Museums GENERAL MONTGOMERY DECORATES MEN OF THE 50TH DIVISION, NORMANDY, 17 JULY 1944 | Imperial War Museums And some sketches The 50th (Northumbrian) Division, 1944: B Mess (Junior Officers) at Divisional Headquarters : Lieutenant H N Meek, Liaison Officer ; Captain E W Clay, GSO 3I ; Major D Penwill, DSO, GSO, 2I ; Captain J Robinson, Royal Corps of Signals | Imperial War The 50th (Northumbrian) Division, 1944: Company Quartermaster : Sergeant J Norris ; Captain J E Sergeant ; Sergeant R Anderson ; Signalman J W Stansfield of the Royal Corps of Signals | Imperial War Museums The 50th (Northumbrian) Division, 1944: Headquarters Staff of the 231 (Malta) Brigade : Captain R T Gilchrist ; Brigadier J Murray, DSO, MC ; Captain H M Johnson ; Lieutenant L J R Arlidge (Royal Corps of Signals) | Imperial War Museums The 50th (Northumbrian) Division, 1944: Officers of the 124th Field Regiment, RA : Lieutenant L G Heptinstall ; Lieutenant A E Kilner, Royal Corps of Signals ; Captain J W Doweswell, MC ; Lieutenant D S Toynbee ; Lieutenant H Irwin ; Lieutenant JJS B I recall seeing a photo of a painting (in a book in the Signals Museum shop) depicting the actions of one of the Divisional Signallers on D-day when he won the MM but I've not been able to find it since. SJ
Good post Jimmy. Regarding the photo of a painting depicting the actions of one of the Divisional Signallers on D-day when he won the MM. The only Fifty Div Signaller that I know of that received an MM on D-Day is L/Cpl RW Bennet - it was actually a Bar to a prior MM he won in the Western Desert. I believe he later moved to 30 Corps Signals. He is shown receiving the D-Day MM from Monty in one of the five photographs in your third attachment at Message # 7. A Capt EW Clay is mentioned in your fourth attachment - Ewart Clay wrote 'The Path of the 50th', the Fifty Div's WWII history. Best, Steve.
Many, many thanks Jimmy! Aye, B5436 is very familiar to me, and I've seen TR2011 before, but I think the absense of the shoulder title and AoS strip in the latter must have thrown me off the scent. H38297 is most excellent, showing, in combination with the others, that full insignia seems to have been worn by most - while the Div patch is not present in that particular photo, I'm pretty certain that's a security measure for while on excercise. These photos seem to confirm that there wasn't a large-scale omittion of any individual patch within the Regt. as can sometimes be seen - such as many men of 61st Recce seemingly omitting the shoulder title - but just the usual diversity as demonstrated so well by the Staff Sarn't in ART LD3941. Will post a full analysis when I've more time. Thanks again Jimmy, I'll be sure to post anything else I can dig up and will contact Blandford to see if they've acquired anything new. All the best, Five-Five
The War diary for 17 July 1944 has the following entry; 1400 General Montgomery (‘Monty’) visits Div HQ to present medals to the division gained since ‘D’ Day. The following men of this unit are presented with the Military Medal:- 2884545 Corpl RICHARDS L.E. Sig Sec 231 Inf Bde 2324224 Corpl HANLON J.L. Sig Sec 231 Inf Bde 2574961 L/Cpl BOWSTEAD D. Sig Sec 90 Fd Regt 2589147 L/Cpl REDSHAW E.A. Sig Sec 151 Inf Bde 2387773 Sigmn GRIMSHAW L. Sig Sec 231 Inf Bde
Hi Five-Five, Mel Snr says, with his usual caustic charm "50 Div didn't have time to take photos or pose, we were getting on with it!" More seriously he says "I had no shoulder titles for the Invasion, only a dark/light blue horizontal stripe about 2inches long and ¼ inch wide. This was on the upper arm under the TT’s on my battledress. Service stripes were on the bottom of the right sleeve – red chevrons on a Khaki background ¾ of an inch long and an eighth of an inch wide. (by then I must have had five as you got one for each year of service) White wound stripes were above these on the right arm.” “That is Bob Anderson from Whitby, was with Cable Section from the start, bit older than me, not in the T.A. – I think he was a Belitiaman” He was looking at the sketches from IWM posted above. Cheers Mel
Hi Mel, Many thanks for the War Diary entry and particularly for Mel Snr's recollections - that's very interesting that he didn't wear shoulder titles but just the Div patches and AoS strips - just goes to show how much diversity there can be insignia-wise within one Regt. Mel Snr says, with his usual caustic charm "50 Div didn't have time to take photos or pose, we were getting on with it!" I love it, so well said! Please give my best wishes to your Father and I wish a Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year to you both. Thanks again, All the best, Five-Five P.S. I would be most interested in any more information about the white wound stripes as I'm not aware of the existence of these - most were gold wire and worn on the left arm - so I wonder whether these white wound stripes were peculiar to the Regiment? I will do some digging and see if I can find anything.
Five-Five, On the shoulder flashes dad is certain they were not worn, but says they had two uniforms and they may have been on the ‘best ‘battle-dress that was kept in the big kit bag at the wagon lines. Maybe that could explain. The white wound stripe is based solely on his mate Stan. Who received a shrapnel wound in the throat just prior to the Gazala Gallop. On the lack of D-Day material, I remember reading somewhere that the Press Unit that was to land didn't make it to shore in one piece. Cannot be sure of the details or which book -sorry. Cheers from Mel & Snr.
Hi Mel, Aye, if one was issued only one pair of shoulder titles, I suppose it would be natural to put them on the 'Best BD', so that is quite likely. Thanks for info about the wound stripes, I will look into it (I'm wondering if they could've been unofficial, in which case I'll likely not find anything). Just had a quick look at the landing tables for Gold and here's what I've found in the way of Press etc. (I may have missed an entry or two but I don't think so); Landing in King Sector w/ 69th Inf Bde; -1 march party, 'AFPU' from an LSI(L), King Green at H+45min -1 march party, 'Press Correspondent' from an LSI(L), King Green at H+45min -1 march party, 'Press Correspondent' from an LCT II, King Green at H+90min -1 march party, 'Press Correspondent' from an LCT II, King Red at H+90min Landing in Jig Sector w/ 231st Inf Bde; -2 march parties, 'Press' from an LSI(L), Jig Green West Side at H+120min -2 march parties, 'Press' from an LSI(L), Jig Green West Side at H+120min Landing in King Sector w/ 151st Inf Bde; -3 vehicle parties in 1 Jeep, 'War Correspondent' from an LCT II, King Sector at H+6hrs -3 vehicle parties in 1 Jeep, 'War Correspondent' from an LCT II, King Sector at H+6hrs -3 vehicle parties in 1 Jeep, 'War Correspondent' from an LCT II, King Sector at H+6hrs Landing in Jig Sector w/ 56th Inf Bde; -None (that I could see) Seems surprisingly few, so I wonder if the landing tables have missed some parties, but the above is what I could find. Serjt. Midgley of No.5 AFPU must have landed somewhere (perhaps he is the lone AFPU march party on King Green?) to have been able to take this shot of 1st Dorset's carriers coming ashore; THE INVASION OF NORMANDY 1944. © IWM (B 5244)IWM Non Commercial Licence Will look into this further at a later date. Thanks again, Cheers, Five-Five
