OK - putting these in a new post to widen out the potential scope. I finally managed to wrestle After the Battle - Blitzkrieg in the West on to my protesting scanner and then manipulate these images to get some jpegs - sorry about quality, this is the best I could do. The two images with Tirailleurs of the French army surrendering are from pages 475 and 476 and captioned 1) as Hangest and 2) Chateau le Quesnoy. I think they are both of le Quesnoy and I think they are both stills from footage shot for the propaganda film Sieg im Westen. Unless I'm going dotty - and I accept the possibility of misremembering quite happily - I have seen these as part of newsreel footage on World at War or All Our Yesterdays or similar. They just come to me as moving images. They also fit with the sequence shown in the film, which was shot - and partially reconstructed - in le Quesnoy. The scenes from Hangest come earlier. If I'm right, these are part of the sequence shot by Rommel with Hans Ertl -a Leni Riefenstahl cameraman who was drafted into the Propaganda Korps for just this purpose. If I'm right, this is the sequence referred to in Rommel's memoirs as quoted by David Irving (I know, but it's the only source I have so far), in which he says: “The Nazi propaganda minister, Goebbels, asked him to collaborate on a big army film about the campaign, Victory in the West. Rommel spent part of August re-enacting for the movie cameras the Spook Division’s crossing of the Somme. He had a great time playing movie director, and he schooled his troops in acting techniques. A battalion of French black troops was hauled out of the prison camps to stage the surrender of a village. Again, this time for the cameras, Rommel’s tanks charged, guns blazing. He told the blacks to come out toward the tanks with their hands up and looking scared; but the men over- acted, rolled the whites of their eyes, and screamed with terror. Rommel cut the cameras, and patiently explained through interpreters that actors had to show their emotions more subtly than that. The battle scenes were finally filmed on such an epic and reckless scale that several more lives were lost, though through no fault of Rommel’s. “No expense has been spared to show it as it really was,” he wrote on the last day of shooting. “There were blacks in it again today. The fellows had a whale of a time and thoroughly enjoyed putting up their hands all over again.” David Irving. The Trail of the Fox Weidenfeld & Nicolson, (London,1977) And I was brought up to think Rommel was a good guy? Very interested in your opinions. I include the shot of the cameraman - possibly Ertl - as well because I also think this may be reconstructed - both men seem dangerously exposed - although I once watched a cameraman filming a Vickers machine gun get too close to the muzzle from the side and be blown off his feet by the blast - the absolute bollocking he received from the range corporal was a joy to behold.
Brian, I don't know this particular situation but they look faked to me. There are a number of well-known German photographs from 1940 which were clearly post-event reconstructions for the cinema newsreels. (The British later did it too, of course). I don't think that the film equipment of the period permitted much else.
I agree Rich - and in the sense of making propaganda, I don't have a big problem with that. I suppose in some senses, the vast majority of newsreel footage is 'staged' in some way. I'm just interested in this idea of using real soldiers as some sort of expendable extras. The cameras of WW2 seem small enough - hand-held 16mm was certainly available - Arriflex, Bolex-Paillard and Eclair all made small, relatively lightweight cameras with turret mounted lenses. Sound recording was another thing, but that was rarely done in the field in 1940 I would have thought. You can see plenty of examples of what appears to be 'actuality' (shot on the spot) footage from Sieg im Westen - some material shot through a vision slit in a tank for instance - but so much of that material appears to be shot from a relatively sheltered point of view - there's a scene with a German infantryman putting a grenade through a window and the camera pops up for just long enough to catch it then down into shelter. I doubt anyone got shot at recording Olympiad? Nothing much has changed - if you watch something like Restrepo,made in Afghanistan on a pretty cheap Sony Z1 by a two man crew of Sebastian Jungr - a journalist who hadn't used a camera - and Tim Hetherington, a British photo journalist who was later killed in Libya, they're ducking and diving, bobbing and weaving all the time. Hetherington said, "When I got to the Korangal Valley, and there was lots of fighting going on, it completely surprised me. I was gobsmacked. At the end of October 2007, 70 percent of American bombs being dropped were in that valley, and the casualty rate was at 25 percent wounded. So the images I made were very action oriented. Photojournalism. Reminiscent of classical war photography. I did that because I wanted people to see that there was a lot of fighting going on. Anyway, I go back and the fighting sort of bored me. Because when you are in a lot of combat after a while, a lot of it – you know? If you are inside a base that's being attacked, like Restrepo was, you are in a fairly good position. The likelihood of you being killed was pretty low, unless they put a mortar on you." Ironically, he was killed in Libya by a mortar round.
The middle photo comes from NARA´s Rommel photo collection and was therefore either made by him or taken for him. Because of the situation its very likely to be a propaganda shot. A common practice in 1940. Real combat photos of that period are usually very bad (blurry etc.) because the equipment was not up to real action photography. Most propaganda photos (that is: a photo taken by a professional photographer assigned to a propaganda unit) which are now available from the Bildarchiv Koblenz either show only the rear (casualty transport, POWs coming back) or are explicitely faked combat shots. Propaganda units did not join the combat units in 1940 anyway, hence real combat shots are always made by the real soldier. Who is then quite busy not getting himself killed which makes a good photo not his highest priority. I have a few real combat photos from the 1940 around the Maginot Line. Honestly: they suck. Blurry, out of focus etc. But it gives you the impression of being really there. If you want to see how it can be done better, have a look at the combat photos taken in the Pacific 44/45. Thats professional combat photography with adequate equipment and photographers risking their lives.
(1) And I was brought up to think Rommel was a good guy? Very interested in your opinions. (2)....although I once watched a cameraman filming a Vickers machine gun get too close to the muzzle from the side and be blown off his feet by the blast - the absolute bollocking he received from the range corporal was a joy to behold. (2) Is there a clip of the Vickers MG scene available on internet (youtube) ? (1) so , your only question is this ? Is Rommel to be seen as a "good guy" ? meaning; you believed he was a good guy, and find this re-enacting history put a smudge on his image ? (Personally , despite his shrewd tactical capabilities , I would never call Rommel a Good guy... Hitler himself was tactically brilliant too by adopting the Fall Gelb operation..does that make Hitler a "good" guy ?)
Maginotline - thank you very much for that, if these are, as I suspect, staged, there is more chance that they may be photographs of the filming or indeed stills from 16mm film shot but not necessarily used in Sieg im Westen - it also means I'm not going daffy in my old age as I swore I'd seen them before. I didn't know that the Propaganda Kompanie weren't assigned to combat troops in 1940. There do seem to be some sequences in Sieg im Westen that have a ring of authenticity, but I agree, a lot of it looks staged. I started out in the film industry as a clapper/loader, I wasn't a camera operator, but I know how difficult it was in the days before autofocus and auto exposure - often professional photographers and cameramen will compose material in a way that seems or is inauthentic in some way.Several commentators have written about the aesthetics of professional war photography including Susan Sontag. I have ordered Hans Ertl's Ertl als Kriegsberichter from the British Library - I know he was assigned to Rommel in July? so would have taken part in these reconstructions - hopefully his book may throw some light and give me an additional perspective to David Irving's. When you say 'NARA' Rommel collection - is that the National Archives?
arnhem44 - sorry I haven't got the actual moment on the tape - I wish I had. I do have some miniDV footage of the Vickers firing - it was at Bisley and we had asked an armourer from the Logistics Corps to fire it for us. I was working on a film about Gallipoli and I think it was a pre WW1 version which was very beautiful - appeared to be brass to my untutored eye? The sergeant firing it kept cursing the sub standard ammo jamming the gun, which was a mixture of all sorts of .303 but mostly Polish I recall. We shot at some water filled barrels and the effect was quite shocking. The comment about Rommel was just a throwaway about his image in the British media - the Desert Fox and James Mason etc....the notion of the good German rather than the Nazi was cartainly one that I was brought up on. The actual context is: 1) I am writing a chapter for a book about the Media and WW2 which deals with this notion of 'reconstruction' . It's not the reconstruction - all film making is in some way reconstructing, but that he took the killing of prisoners so lightly - being in a different cultural context doesn't excuse that, it's still a war crime, but it doesn't surprise me I'm afraid. 2) I am writing a book about a black soldier, Trooper Joe Small, who was killed in 1940. He was British, but one of the stories I was told was that he was shot while surrendering. Seems as ordinary German soldiers, including 7th Panzer and the 6th Infanterie Division amongst others (not just SS troops) were killing black prisoners because they had resisted too long, or because they were seen as 'savages' - that is a focus of interest for me, particularly as the action in which Joe was killed involved 6th ID. I welcome your interest and comments thank you - yet again, I find I get more of that from this forum than from many 'professional' historians.
I think you lost me now. Where does Blitzkrieg in the West (or any other book) say something about Rommel ordering or allowing the execution of POWs in France? I never heard such a thing. Do you still speak of Rommel? And yes, NARA means National Archives.
I just had a quick look through my copy of the "Sieg im Westen" movie and I could not find the scene depicted above. That does not mean it was not staged. Only that it was not used for this movie. One would have to look now through the sequences of the Wochenschau too in order to know if there was a movie made during the above-mentioned recreation. "Sieg im Westen" is really the ultimate fake film. It contains everything from propaganda recreations, sometimes as late as october 1940. It contains French propagand material. And my favorite: a scene were they took an aerial photo of a Maginot Line bunker and filmed it with a shaky camera so that it would look like its the view from a Stuka during the attack. Quite funny if you think about it.
I think you lost me now. Where does Blitzkrieg in the West (or any other book) say something about Rommel ordering or allowing the execution of POWs in France? I never heard such a thing. Do you still speak of Rommel? And yes, NARA means National Archives. Sorry Maginotline - I thought my first post explained the situation. My source - and my sole source at the moment - for this information about the killing of POW's during a reconstruction directed by Rommel comes from David Irving's book about Rommel from 1977. I quote it in the first post. I am waiting for a copy of Liddell Hart's book of Rommel's memoirs to see if it is mentioned there. I also now have a copy of Hans Ertl's book - he shot film material for Rommel, so I will see if there is a mention in there of this. I found the two pictures of black troops surrendering in Blitzkrieg in the West - they don't mention a source, just 'various sources'. I think they are stills from unused footage shot for Sieg im Westen -as you say, they didn't use all the footage. I will look at the material in the Wochenschau archive, but I think there is quite a lot. I agree , the 'Stuka' footage does look very fake to our modern eyes, but then cinema audiences were shocked by The Battle of the Somme film in 1916, which looks obvioulsy fake to us now.
The battle scenes were finally filmed on such an epic and reckless scale that several more lives were lost, though through no fault of Rommel’s. I see! That line you mean. Well, it seems a lot of interpretation to take that line and make "intentional killing of black POWs" out of it. Here is how I see it: - its from D. Irving, who, despite having the best sources ever for his book, still invented facts where he saw the need - if anybody was killed, its most likely German soldiers. Mock attacks with live ammo kill soldiers all over the world, even today - most likely it never happened (loss of lives). Staging such an attack for film is both costly and time-consuming. To do that in such a way that somebodys life is at risk and then to have this footage not even used, whats the point of doing it in the first place? Sieg im Westen was very cost-effective with its use of pre-war footage from all sides. What was staged there were scenes lasting seconds, stuff that took minutes filming it. Then there is the sad fact that wanna-be historians in Germany have tried for the last ten years or so to destroy Rommels image. If such a thing had really happened and POWs were killed in the affair we would by now have books about the incident. If you mean BHLH "the Rommel papers" I can tell you that it does not mention any such thing.
The entire photo series of Quesnoy, with the tank crashing through the wall and the Senegalese soldiers surrendering can be found in Yves Buffetauts book "Rommel France 1940" Heimdal 1985 pages 124-132. All photos in that book come from NARAs Rommel collection.
Interesting thread. I hope you continue to post here as you learn more. I can speak about the "Rommel Photo Collection" at the US National Archives, or NARA. I have scanned all the photos in the collection and sell them on DVD (yes, I know, a shameless plug). The collection is in two parts - photos from France 1940 and North Africa in 1941, and then photos taken by Rommel himself. According to NARA, the France 40 and North Africa 41 photographs were taken by various photographers and then given to Rommel. The image you posted of the French soldiers running with hands up in front of the Panzer is similar to a series of some 20 photos in the collection which shows a panzer attack, including several images of the surrendering soldiers. I quickly looked through the collection, but did not see the exact image you posted (but then there are more than 800 photos). The second part of the collection is are photos actually taken by Rommel. All are post France 1940. There may information of interest to you in the Rommel papers at NARA. There are several collections of which one is described as - "This series contains three segments. The first (file: EAP 21-x-14/3) consists primarily of correspondence of Erwin Rommel with his wife and son, January 1940 - March 1944. The second (file: EAP 21-x-14/4) consists primarily of personal letters sent by Erwin Rommel, 1939 - 1941. The third (files: EAP 21-x-14/6-8, 9a and 9b), consists of correspondence of Erwin Rommel with his wife and son, January 15, 1935 - July 29, 1944. The records are in German." To see more of the Rommel material at NARA, go to this link - Archival Research Catalog (ARC) of the National Archives - and search on the term "Rommel." Regards, Marc
Maginotline - thank you very much. Marc - thank you very much indeed for the links and info - order winging its way as soon as possible, shameless plug or not. For anyone interested, the material that Irving used for his book is available (£20 week/£40 month) is available digitally at British Online Archives from Microform Academic Publishers. This includes the translations of some of the NARA material made by and for Irving - they have some interesting material there on other subjects.
I am very interested in this entire "Rommel acting and directing in Sieg im Westen". Its a very popular statement here in Germany. Its on Wikipedia and on the websites of two major TV stations. But no Rommel in Sieg im Westen. Not shown, not mentioned. The tank battle is there, but the scenes with tank 321 crashing through the wall and taking prisoners not. There exists a propaganda print named "Sieg im Westen" which tries to make some PR for the movie, explaining how it was shot (not the truth of course). It also includes a chapter on Ertl and some photos of him. There is a two page chapter "Panzer gegen Panzer" which uses among others the photo of tank 114 and the French POWs. Rommel is, once again, not mentioned here at all. But as we have the photos in his collection it seems a fair assumption that he was somehow connected to this recreation. I would like to know more, but I am afraid it will require a study of Rommels letters to his wife to get a clarification. Irvings text (German translation) does not help with a source, unfortunately.
When I initially read the paragraph in Irving's book, I immediately thought the quotes read like a letter. As Maginotline says, there is no explicit reference to a source in Irving's book - which doesn't use footnotes. For me, the next step is to look at the archive of his letters online at the source above - but I am aware it may not be a full account. Having had a closer look at Ertl's book, he makes no explicit mention of the black POW's - I wouldn't expect him to either. He does talk about re-shooting the actions of 7 Panzer because there hadn't been enough material shot. He does mention Rommel several times and of the recreation of Rommel's panzer actions in what appear to have been Rommel's autumn manoeuvres. Later he says, " Thanks to the exemplary organization of General Rommel and Colonel Karl Rothenburg of Panzer Regiment 25, I had the main part of my filming in the can within a few days...
Brian - I looked into the Rommel photo collection again - attached is a photo of a camera man on one of the panzers used in the re-creation. Regards, Marc
