Wingaba Buddha Rangoon location query.

Discussion in 'Burma & India' started by High Wood, Dec 1, 2015.

  1. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    The location of the photograph of a parked jeep and passing army lorry should be easy to identify but is surprisingly difficult as there seem to be no modern photographs of this reclining Buddha. An early photograph describes it as the reclining Buddha at Wingaba. This only reference to Wingaba that I can find shows it to be in Rangoon near the Shwe Dagon pagoda. There is a reclining Buddha at Wingaba but it is not the same one shown in my photograph.

    I think that it would be hard to hide a figure of this size and I doubt that it could have been smuggled out of the country in someone's hand luggage so, where is it?
     

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  2. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    The other photograph.
     

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  3. Capt.Sensible

    Capt.Sensible Well-Known Member

  4. Capt.Sensible

    Capt.Sensible Well-Known Member

    There seems to be some history of later statues being demolished and rebuilt in a more 'pleasing' style:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaukhtatgyi_Buddha_Temple

    Gotcha! I reckon the WW2 photo is of the old Chaukhtatgyi statue that was demolished and rebuilt between ?1966 and ?1973.

    CS
     
  5. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

  6. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Hi HW,

    Wingaba Cliffs was a feature close to the banks of the Shweli River just south of where it turns west and flows into the Irrawaddy. The name rang a bell because 8 Column from Chindit 1 attempted a west to east crossing of the Shweli at that point. I thought I'd just mention this, although I doubt it is the place you are searching for. But, just in case.

    Attached is a map showing Wingaba Cliffs and the link to a larger map for reference.

    http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/burma/txu-oclc-6924198-nf47-1.jpg



    NF47-1 Wingaba Cliffs.jpg
     
  7. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

  8. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your help gentlemen. Despite the existence of three separate Wingabas it would seem that the only one with a reclining Buddha is the Rangoon one. As stated it has been rebuilt but I cannot help thinking that it was more impressive before the rebuilding. The photograph was amongst a mixed lot that did include some pictures of a war damaged Rangoon as well as photographs taken elsewhere in Burma.
     
    Capt.Sensible likes this.
  9. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

  10. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    B43,

    yep, that is definitely the same statue. I am surprised that it was knocked down and rebuilt as a reclining Buddha and that being so close to the Shwe Dagon Pagoda it looks to be in open countryside.

    Simon.
     
  11. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    I have found Wingaba on a map of Rangoon but the reclining Buddha doesn't seem to be marked.

    Wingaba.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
  12. Matt Poole

    Matt Poole Member

    Some google searching and then Google earth leads me to this conclusion:

    The reclining Buddha, known as the Chaukhtatgyi Buddha, is in a large building on Shwegondaing Rd, around 1000 meters to the NW of the part of town where High Wood's map shows the place name "Wingaba". To be precise, it's 1064 meters, on a heading of 33 degrees, from the intersection of Wingabar St and Wingarbar Ln (place name spelling per Google earth).

    It's just southwest of the old Rangoon Race Course site (still recognizable as an oval), and between Victoria Lake (to the north) and Royal Lake (to the south) -- those are the wartime names.

    See the graphics showing the measurement, taken from Google earth. The Buddha is in the large building on the north side of Shwegondaing Rd, as seen in the zoomed-in satellite photo.

    Google revealed a website with a photo of the Buddha on the left, and a map of its location on the right. I've attached a screen shot of this entire page, including the web address, which can also be found by googling on "Chaukhtatgyi Buddha Temple". In fact, if you google on this, you will get numerous options for further snooping, including photo options.

    The location of the Buddha is shown at the largest red blob on the map to the right of the large Buddha image. Attached, also, is a second bit of map, also including the Buddha image.

    I have detailed wartime air photos of Rangoon, from 12 Dec 1944, which cover the location of the Buddha statue. Using a stereoscope, I absolutely think I see the Buddha in 3D. Eventually I'll scan one of the two prints which make up the stereo pair (viewed together to see 3D), and I'll try to point out the Buddha in the photo. It may not be for a couple of days.

    The bottom line: I certainly believe I have the correct Rangoon location for the Buddha statue, and I'll follow up with a wartime air photo. The Buddha won't be obvious to 99 out of 100 viewers, but I see it.

    Cheers, and happy new year,

    Matt
     

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  13. Matt Poole

    Matt Poole Member

    Mad rush...no time to properly scan my air photos. They aren't particularly sharp, anyway, and I cannot actually see an image which looks like a Buddha, but I've found the location.

    Here is a quick digital camera shot. The Buddha is within circle, located at the back point of the triangle. On quick inspection I think I can see shadows of at least two of the three spires seen in the ground photo (and also seen in the ebay color photo), but the shadow of the Buddha itself is a bit funky. More study is needed!

    Compare the orientation of the road to the map to see the relationship to north.

    Sorry...no more time now. It's not an idea image, and a scan won't appreciably improve upon this, but I know from my experience with imagery that this is the location of the Buddha statue.

    AFTER I RETIRE...which could be next month or next year...I'll keep this in mind when I snoop around air photos at the US National Archives. Without a doubt there will be other imagery covering this part of Rangoon, and there might be an oblique image or two or three that actually reveal the Buddha in a recognizable form! (But I have other projects ahead of that...like to finish photographing some of the Operation Thursday sites...)

    Cheers,

    Matt
     

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  14. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Matt,

    that is absolutely brilliant. Thank you for taking the trouble to locate these images for me. I have added a few notes to the aerial photograph.

    Happy New Year,

    Simon.
     

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  15. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    This appears to be the right location on my map. I have marked the position of the Buddha with a white star. No 96 is marked as a W/T station as is No 81.
     

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  16. Matt Poole

    Matt Poole Member

    Thanks for the kind words, Simon.

    Still no time to scan properly and annotate properly, but...

    See attached. Your white star is too far to the east. Instead, the Buddha is just to the left of the circled number 81. Note the triangular grouping of red "buildings" (not all of which are buildings). Attached is a different piece of imagery I quickly photographed with my digital camera last night, and showing a larger area than the small piece posted last night. I have rotated the latest image to match your map, and this should make it easier to see that your white star needs to be moved to the left (west).

    Please keep in mind that my digital camera shot is not ideal, and is out of focus in places. 'Twas just a quick shot to get something to post last night.

    Also, in your other post today, you noted where you think the photo was taken from. I think it is further to the west on the main road. Note that in the old photo there is a slight turn to the right, so the photo was taken west of this slight dogleg right. I haven't worked out the precise point, though.

    No time for more...waaaaahhhhhh!

    Cheers,

    Matt
     

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  17. High Wood

    High Wood Well-Known Member

    Matt,

    thank you for putting me right on the location. I was confusing the triangle of land further east on Shwegondaing Road with the triangle that you have highlighted at No 81 which is actually marked as Ngadawkyi (Nga Daw Gyi) Pagoda which is actually south of the Shwegondaing Road. There also appears to be a road, (marked in blue) on your photograph that is not on my map but those outlined in red correspond exactly.

    Simon
     

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  18. Matt Poole

    Matt Poole Member

    Simon,

    You're spot on.

    Matt
     
  19. Matt Poole

    Matt Poole Member

    It's Buddha overkill time!

    I still haven't scanned the air photos. It's on the agenda...Actually, the Buddha site is on three different photo recon prints. In stereo I can see the height of the Buddha statue, and even the top of the head, though the angle overhead doesn't reveal the face. Well, before Rangoon freezes over I'll scan one or two of the Buddha section(s) of air photo coverage.

    On-line I found some more coverage of this site. Attached are some more photos, plus the two ebay color photos which appear in Steve's (bamboo43's) link in post #9, above.

    And then I found a nice cinema reference to our likely Buddha in the holdings of the Imperial War Museum...but this software doesn't let me paste the text for some reason (help, if there's a simple solution). Instead, included are two jpegs taken from screen copies showing this web page's pertinent details. The key description:

    A small building, possibly a monastery, with spires and a large stone face of the Buddha breaking the treeline. A road with bullock carts, the stone Buddha and spires in the background.

    Steve, note at the end of the description that Rangoon Jail is seen from the air:

    Rangoon prison seen from the air, the message 'Japs Gone' is clearly visible on the roof of one of the buildings.

    Maybe you've seen this description before...It's likely! But the actual cinema footage is not on-line.

    Right, then...more coverage of this particular Buddha than you perhaps wanted to see...but I suspect there are a few who will take in every photo.

    Cheers,

    Matt
     

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    bamboo43 likes this.
  20. Matt Poole

    Matt Poole Member

    This is crazy...but some of the same cinema footage of the Buddha, and Rangoon Jail and it's "JAPS GONE" rooftop message, which I mentioned in my last posting, has shown up in footage held by the Australian War Memorial. And the film is viewable on-line, in film F02126.

    Here are two screen captures showing the Buddha and one showing Rangoon Jail at the beginning of May 1945.
     

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    bamboo43 likes this.

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