Hello , Thank you all for the welcome I posted an image on my introduction and after a little bit of advice (Guess who from) I`ve moved it here with some more specific questions than my feeble attempt this afternoon! The photograph is a reprint (dated on the back 1998) it shows we believe a comrade of my father in law who served in the RASC during the last war.Now for the hard part. 1.Could this be North Africa in 1941-42 ? 2. Would the RASC have motorcycles in the Desert? Would the RASC have motorcycles at all? 3.Are these British Motor Cycles? 4. Ridiculous I know but is there anyway of finding out who the soldier is? (Kyles question! ) 5)Were the RASC attached to regiments or were their soldiers independent? (He spelt it right too!) Thanks lads and lasses Clifford (and Kyle)
Clifford (& Kyle) Welcome aboard ! 1.Could this be North Africa in 1941-42 ? 2. Would the RASC have motorcycles in the Desert? Would the RASC have motorcycles at all? 3.Are these British Motor Cycles? 4. Ridiculous I know but is there anyway of finding out who the soldier is? (Kyles question! ) 5)Were the RASC attached to regiments or were their soldiers independent? (He spelt it right too!) Thanks lads and lasses Clifford (and Kyle) 1. Absence of KD (Khaki Drill) makes it less likely, but as someone who was in North Africa I can't remember if we ever changed back into "normal" Battledress so let's wait for confirmation on that one. 2. Almost every type of unit had motor bykes so why not the RASC ? 3. Let's leave that to the experts (and we have many on this site) 4. About one chance in a million but who knows ? 5. The RASC seemed to work at "unit strength" for example they had transport units that held various vehicles that could be used to supply extra transport for any Rgt that required their services. A similar service would be the running of petrol dumps. For this reason only it was probably rare for individual RASC members to find themselves attached to any particular unit. Hope this has been of some help, I'm sure others will offer their own slant Ron
I'm more into 4-wheeled stuff, but I'm pretty sure that's a Norton WD16. Pictures Sorry Vitesse, but with the big winged M on the tank and knee pads it has to be a matchless. During the Second World War, Matchless manufactured 80,000 G3 and G3L models for the armed forces. By 1956 they had eight models in their line up Matchless G3/L - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What is interesting (at least to me) is that the serial numbers are marked in Arabic numerals below the "normal" numbers. I wonder if that was unique to one country / region - for some reason I'm thinking of Palestine. Was it common for service vehicles to have the numbers displayed both ways?
Hello All, Thank you all again, such a response and knowledge on this subject Thank you. Ron thank you so much I never considered the battledress issue and the desert,Thank you,The motorcycle identification is also encouraging and I`m sure we will get a definitive answer soon again Thank you.If all the other units had motorcycles Yes it would be right to assume the RASC would indeed be the same.Arabic numbers I never noticed that either!Thank You.The identification of the soldier is of course the ridiculous part (but his nibs would insist I ask) All in all a lot for him to ponder when he gets home thank you. Looking again at the print it seems to have what seems another date on the reverse, faint, but it looks like 27/6/67 ?.Again Thank You all. Clifford
Can't help progress this, but I can ask my own question(s). I am looking at the formation badge on the sleeve but can't really make it out. However my question is what formation badges would the RASC wear? Would they be assigned to a division or would it be likely to be a higher formation, or could it be either? G.
Hello , Thank you all for the welcome I posted an image on my introduction and after a little bit of advice (Guess who from) I`ve moved it here with some more specific questions than my feeble attempt this afternoon! The photograph is a reprint (dated on the back 1998) it shows we believe a comrade of my father in law who served in the RASC during the last war.Now for the hard part. 1.Could this be North Africa in 1941-42 ? 2. Would the RASC have motorcycles in the Desert? Would the RASC have motorcycles at all? 3.Are these British Motor Cycles? 4. Ridiculous I know but is there anyway of finding out who the soldier is? (Kyles question! ) 5)Were the RASC attached to regiments or were their soldiers independent? (He spelt it right too!) Thanks lads and lasses Clifford (and Kyle) Hello Cifford (& Kyle), Welcome to the forum! I think I can help you out considerably with this one...you see I have a copy of the same photograph!!! The photograph does not show a RASC soldier but a Private of The 1st Durham Light Infantry Pte P Raison who at the time was training to be a DR .Pte Raisons father and grandfather were both ex -DLI too his Grandfather served with 2DLI .Two of his brothers were also originally with 1st DLI older brother William George Raison a pre war regular died/killed in service at home whilst with 16 DLI (03/02/1941) he is buried at Hartley South Whitley Bay Cemetery.Pte P Raisons second brother Jack was seriously wounded whilst with 1st DLI in the actions around Capuzzo. The photograph itself comes from the Imperial War Museum Collection the `feint date` is actually the original catalogue number? Being E.27667 and not 27/6/67.The photograph was taken by Lieut Keys on the 16th March 1944 at this time the 1st DLI were recovering and refitting following their mauling on Kos in October 1943 at this time they were around the area of Mena Egypt I cannot be more precise regarding the location because I don`t have the War Diary for that period yet.Sorry. Ron the Battledress issue is a strange one but I have other photographs indeed one from this same series showing a mixture of uniforms including full battledress. The arm patch is not a formation patch it is a simple rectangle with the letters `DLI `. Sorry I know nothing about the motorbikes. Best Wishes Jim
Clifford (and Kyle) - the bike in the foreground is a Matchless G3 all right - the G3/L is the teleforked model. Behind him is (I think) a BSA M20 - - I can't see a lot of the bike, but the lack of small check-springs on the girder forks would tell me not a Nortan 16H - Rich should be able to confirm?
So Ron's 'one chance in a million' was just a ploy - along comes Verriers and gives everything except the guy's inside leg measurement! Great result!
Clifford (and Kyle) - the bike in the foreground is a Matchless G3 all right - the G3/L is the teleforked model. Behind him is (I think) a BSA M20 - - I can't see a lot of the bike, but the lack of small check-springs on the girder forks would tell me not a Nortan 16H - Rich should be able to confirm? Thank you Phylo another question answered. Verrieres I do appreciate such a detailed answer Please don`t take this the wrong way but we always assumed that this was RASC can there be any doubt at all that this soldier is not RASC ? I do not have much information at all on my late father in law his name was Robert (Bob) Richmond and came from the Cullercoats area he survived the war but died (I believe) in the late 70`s.It could be a possibility that he was with the 1st DLI before the RASC or vice versa? We knew he fought in the Desert and assumed he fought at El Alamein but with who is now the question did 1st Durham Light Infantry fight at El Alamein at all. Kyle is planning his project loosely around a campaign relevant to his Gt Grandfathers War but with so little personal information he may opt for a campaign involving a relevant unit? Clifford
The only thing I can add is that the Royal Army Service Crop did use motorcycles as my great uncle Harold was a despatch rider/Driver as and when needed and was in the RASC......The family have pictures some where of him I am have been trying to get hold of who has them but everyone is in denial.... Or more and likely lost them or sold them.....all I know is when my great aunt ( Harold sister ) passed away they vanished along with his medals. Lee F
We knew he fought in the Desert and assumed he fought at El Alamein but with who is now the question did 1st Durham Light Infantry fight at El Alamein at all. Middle East Forces (DLI) - DURHAM LIGHT INFANTRY 1920-1946 might prove useful to you in this respect. G.
Middle East Forces (DLI) - DURHAM LIGHT INFANTRY 1920-1946 might prove useful to you in this respect. G. Grunson,Thanks for directing him to my website it would have been my next suggestion.Cheers. Clifford,There is no doubt regarding the identity indeed there are newspaper cuttings/stories relating to his brother already on my website the same photograph and others are waiting to be added. In respect of transfers any combination could be valid if you have his service number then that could give you a pointer. The 1st DLI did not take part in the Battle of El Alamein but were the first of the DLI battalions to arrive(and fight) in the desert (1940) .Check out my website and if you have the service number post it here and someone will no doubt check it for you. Best Wishes Jim
Well done Jim, wonderful work! Clifford, if Private Raison is from Whitley Bay (or near) and Bob Richmond from Cullercoats, it is just possible that they knew each other pre-service. Regardless of what unit they were in, they may have just bumped into each other in Egypt. These coincidences do happen. As suggested, best way to find out Bob's service history is to obtain his service records. I believe the contact information for these was posted on your introductory thread... but if you need a link just let me/us know. Best, Steve.
Looking at the motorbike it is a Matchless has it has the logo of that company on the rubber knee pads on the side of the petrol tank
The RASC used motorcycles in great numbers and tended to be allocated the faster more road-based machines such as the Matchless in the first photograph. This reflected the amount of convoy control work which involved rushing up and down the line. It was a requirement of the terms of operation in Egypt that all Commonwealth vehicles in use there carried an arabic registration number (I'm not actually sure if it was simply a translation of the WD 'census' number or if there was a dual registration system). The Matchless G3/WO C937184 carries a number from an RASC contract, C7183 and indeed Orchard & Madden's 'British Forces Motorcycles' states that machines were delivered to Aschurch and Feltham (RASC depots) commencing March 1941 and were destined for the Middle East. The RASC records for this contract have not survived and the RAOC cards add no further detail, simply 'RASC - ME' The bike behind is indeed, as Phylo suggests, a WDM20 BSA with it's outline altered by the fitment of an air filter alongside the rear wheel. These appear to have been a local design / manufacture as they do not appear in parts lists and vary slightly in design. C4141656 was assembled under the mid 1940 contract C5610 which was an RAOC contract delivered to Chilwell (RAOC were responsible for the front line units, such as infantry). Jim mentions DR training in his ID of the photo and RASC were certainly responsible for providing vehicles for driving schools so this may explain the presence of a solitary bike issued to them amongst ranks of BSA M20s.
The RASC used motorcycles in great numbers and tended to be allocated the faster more road-based machines such as the Matchless in the first photograph. This reflected the amount of convoy control work which involved rushing up and down the line. It was a requirement of the terms of operation in Egypt that all Commonwealth vehicles in use there carried an arabic registration number (I'm not actually sure if it was simply a translation of the WD 'census' number or if there was a dual registration system). The Matchless G3/WO C937184 carries a number from an RASC contract, C7183 and indeed Orchard & Madden's 'British Forces Motorcycles' states that machines were delivered to Aschurch and Feltham (RASC depots) commencing March 1941 and were destined for the Middle East. The RASC records for this contract have not survived and the RAOC cards add no further detail, simply 'RASC - ME' The bike behind is indeed, as Phylo suggests, a WDM20 BSA with it's outline altered by the fitment of an air filter alongside the rear wheel. These appear to have been a local design / manufacture as they do not appear in parts lists and vary slightly in design. C4141656 was assembled under the mid 1940 contract C5610 which was an RAOC contract delivered to Chilwell (RAOC were responsible for the front line units, such as infantry). Jim mentions DR training in his ID of the photo and RASC were certainly responsible for providing vehicles for driving schools so this may explain the presence of a solitary bike issued to them amongst ranks of BSA M20s. Well Done Rich! This should give Clifford and Kyle all the information they requested and more and they have their RASC tie in as well! Best Wishes Jim
