Pearl Harbor

Discussion in 'War Against Japan' started by Wise1, Aug 30, 2004.

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  1. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Senior Member

    In addition to the Arizona photo which was used a week before the Army/Navy game, there was this little tid-bit just three days before the Imperial Japanese woke up sleepy Pearl Harbor.

    "No matter what happens, the U.S. Navy is not going to be caught napping."

    FRANK KNOX; U.S. Secretary of the Navy speaking on December 4, 1941.
     
  2. Formerjughead

    Formerjughead Senior Member

    In addition to the Arizona photo which was used a week before the Army/Navy game, there was this little tid-bit just three days before the Imperial Japanese woke up sleepy Pearl Harbor.

    "No matter what happens, the U.S. Navy is not going to be caught napping."

    FRANK KNOX; U.S. Secretary of the Navy speaking on December 4, 1941.

    Great place to catch a nap
     
  3. Bob Guercio

    Bob Guercio Senior Member

    In conversation at American dinner parties does 'Pearl Harbour' rank along side 'politics' and 'religion' as a taboo subject?

    Just a thought.

    If it is an intelligent conversation that doesn't get into revisionism, it doesn't rank at all.

    Bob
     
  4. A-58

    A-58 Not so senior Member

    If it is an intelligent conversation that doesn't get into revisionism, it doesn't rank at all.

    Bob
    Or devolves into conspiracy theorist chatter....
     
  5. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer Pearl Harbor Myth Buster

    Once in position Japanese aircraft left their carriers for pearl harbour and despite being picked up on radar the operators did not believe they would have been anything other than friendly aircraft, surely you would know if a wave of aircraft on your radar was friendly or not?

    The radar of the day wasn't like the Air Traffic Control system of today. Today's planes actually tell the controllers who they are via signals. All the folks at Opana Point saw were spikes on an oscilloscope. No IFF, so no idea who was making the spike. There's a good illustration of that on page 138 of Radar Bulletin NO. 2.
     
  6. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    1941: Japanese planes bomb Pearl Harbor
    Japan has launched a surprise attack on the American naval base at Pearl Harbor in Hawaii and has declared war on Britain and the United States.
    The US president, Franklin D Roosevelt, has mobilised all his forces and is poised to declare war on Japan.
    Details of the attack in Hawaii are scarce but initial reports say Japanese bombers and torpedo-carrying planes targeted warships, aircraft and military installations in Pearl Harbor, on Oahu, the third largest and chief island of Hawaii.
    News of the daring raid has shocked members of Congress at a time when Japanese officials in Washington were still negotiating with US Secretary of State Cordell Hull on lifting US sanctions imposed after continuing Japanese aggression against China.




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    He remembered that moment [Pearl Harbor] in later years as the end of one existence and the beginning of another

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    People's War memories ยป



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    At 0755 local time the first wave of between 50 and 150 planes struck the naval base for 35 minutes causing several fires and "untold damage" to the Pacific Fleet.
    The Japanese squadrons dropped high-explosive and incendiary bombs.
    A second strike followed at about 0900 when a force of at least 100 planes pounded the base for an hour.
    At least two Japanese airplanes have been shot down but it is reported that at least 350 men were killed by one single bomb at the Hickam Army Air Field, an Air Corps post on Oahu.
    Officials announced a further 104 Army personnel were killed and 300 were wounded in the raid.
    It is believed the attack was launched from two aircraft carriers.
    One radio report says US forces downed six Japanese planes and sunk four submarines.
    There are reports the Hawaiian capital Honolulu was also bombed as well as the Pacific island of Guam and the capital of the Philippines, Manila.
    A British gunboat, the Peterel, has also been sunk at Shanghai in China.
    Reports from Singapore suggest a build-up of Japanese warships in the South China Sea and seem to be headed for the Gulf of Siam, towards Bangkok.
    President Roosevelt is working on a message to Congress tomorrow in which he is expected to ask for a declaration of war with Japan.
    The Times newspaper's Washington correspondent says the US Government expects Germany and Italy to declare war on the US within hours.
    Although the attack has shocked the American people there is little doubt that it had been brewing for some years.
    Relations with the United States have deteriorated since 1931 when Japan occupied Manchuria in northern China. Over the last decade conflict has intensified into a full-scale war between Japan and China.
    Last year, the US imposed trade sanctions on Japan.
    Then in September 1940 Japan signed a Tripartite Pact with Germany and Italy. It became a formal member of the Axis alliance fighting the European war but continued to negotiate with America for trade concessions until today.
    Japan's fury over the embargoes and allied support for China prompted a declaration of war.


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    [​IMG]E-mail this story to a friend

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    "Untold damage" has been done to the Pacific Fleet



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    In Context


    Within two hours, six battleships had been sunk, another 112 vessels sunk or damaged, and 164 aircraft destroyed. Only chance saved three US aircraft carriers, usually stationed at Pearl Harbor but assigned elsewhere on the day.
    The attacks killed fewer than 100 Japanese but more than 2,400 Americans died - 1,000 of those were on the battleship Arizona which was destroyed at her mooring. Another 1,178 US citizens were injured.
    The next day, President Roosevelt called the attack on Pearl Harbor "a day that will live in infamy" and America declared war on Japan ending its policy of isolationism.
    There were six wartime and one post-war investigation into how America was taken so totally by surprise. They revealed a lack of co-ordination and communication between Washington and Oahu, and between different armed forces.
    As a result local US commanders Admiral Kimmel and Lt-Gen Short were fired.
    The attack was a victory for Japan and allowed it to launch a full-scale invasion of South-east Asia. But out of the US warships damaged or sunk on 7 December 1941, only three - the Arizona, Oklahoma and Utah - were beyond repair, and Utah was already obsolete.
    Pearl Harbor also united an outraged American nation behind President Roosevelt and behind the war against Japan, and failed to destroy the major US ships , the aircraft carriers.



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    Stories From 7 Dec

    1941: Japanese planes bomb Pearl Harbor


    1955: Attlee steps down as Labour leader


    2001: Taleban surrender Kandahar


    1979: Lord Soames to govern Rhodesia


    1983: Tomcat halts steeplejack


    1993: Activists lose battle over chestnut tree





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    WW2 People's War >>

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    [​IMG]Stories from the people who lived and fought during World War II

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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/7/newsid_3494000/3494108.stm
     
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  7. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    I dunnoh why but something makes me wonder still why Japan thought this was a good idea, and Argentina likewise re. the Falklands. And Saddam re. Kuwait. (plus many more!)

    It still smacks of some small chap throwing the first punch at a big guy and hoping to immediately knock them out, but not having really ever considered what to do if this didn't work. (Or even how things might pan out when the big chap did eventually get up...)

    Perhaps not quite the biggest gamble in history but still comes pretty close... but there's a tendency for gamblers to keep doubling their bets and not tending to think (or even want to consider) that they might lose.
     
  8. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    ....going back to the original question though which asks why did the American's seem so unprepared... I am in a state of wondering if the post HawaiiThanksgiving blues and the run up to Xmas might have had any bearing there? The military had drilled and were often put on heightened watch but constant readiness and vague warnings on impending danger to all is thought to tend to snap a troops effectiveness and morale.

    Hence the Germans in Normandy "taking a breather" due to the weather et. al prior to the allied invasion and the French state of (un)readiness when the original German invasion was actually undertaken (after the phony war).

    I remember people half positing that the Millenium bug (aka the switch from 1999 to 2000) involved a heightened watch as it was deemed a risky time if literally everyone "on watch" at that time was "off-their game" due to the festivities and hang-over thereafter ;) There's a conspiracy theory for you...

    Plus the Japanese attack was on a Sunday morning and was very cleverly planned, plus it involved often forgot/overlooked threats of thrusts into/at the Phillippines, Hong Kong and Singapore, Wake island, Aleutians and even Darwin later (and later still Ceylon) got a "passing blow"... once those ships sailed who knew where or if any strike was truly likely to fall? Even decoded info. might have been a ruse. Aka Midway - when the US "knew" it was Operation MI they had to really check that this was not some plant to put them off the scent of what was really going on.

    I think that the US knew Pearl was at threat, they just couldn't keep up an indefinite constant all hands watch given the resources on call at the time and hoped/expected any "punch" when and if it fell would be ineffective in the long run as Japan would never have the resources thereafter to make "good" on any early gains by such action they might obtain....

    Japan though / hoped that that first step would be a fait accompli, particularity when put in context with what other moves (including the hoped for German declaration of war vs. the US) they had in train. Whereas the US fortunately didn't see Pearl et. al as a knock-out blow...

    Rm.
     
  9. Dave55

    Dave55 Atlanta, USA Patron

    My Uncle George interviewed by a local newspaper in 1966.

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  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    See why you use 55 :lol::lol:

    TD
     
  11. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

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