Paratroopers...

Discussion in 'General' started by Hedley1972, Aug 11, 2005.

  1. Hedley1972

    Hedley1972 Junior Member

    If anybody could enlighten me, I would be very grateful for information on these points:


    If an (English) soldier was a Paratrooper in 1941, would he have been trained as a soldier first and then been transfered to being a paratrooper, or would he have gone straight in?

    Were there (English) Paratroopers from many different Regiments at the time, or did they all belong to the same regiment?

    Would the division/battalion/regiment that a soldier was enlisted in have been a matter of choice, or would it just depend on where he was living at the time?

    I really have very little knowledge of all this, despite having tried to read up on it a bit on the net, so please forgive my ignorance!
     
  2. TheRedBaron

    TheRedBaron Junior Member

    If an (English) soldier was a Paratrooper in 1941, would he have been trained as a soldier first and then been transfered to being a paratrooper, or would he have gone straight in?


    All British Paratroopers in WW2 were volunteers from exisiting units. Thus they would recieved basic infantry training and then go on to complete the parachute and battle training upon joining the airborne formation. In 1941 the British Airborne force was at a very early stage. The first operation carried out in Italy in Febuary 1941 little more than a glorified sabotage raid and by May 1941 Britain possessed around 500 parachutists. It was then hoped to maintain an output of 400 trained parachutists per month to produce 5000 paratroopers by May 1942. At this time the military saw the need for only two parachute brigades and two air-landing brigades.

    Were there (English) Paratroopers from many different Regiments at the time, or did they all belong to the same regiment?

    Not sure I understand this question but... Parachute regiments would contain a mix of troops from various infantry regiments. It has been suggested that the creaming off of the most capable troops into the parachute regiments deprived units from a hardcore of veterans.

    Would the division/battalion/regiment that a soldier was enlisted in have been a matter of choice, or would it just depend on where he was living at the time?

    More on time of joining. There were only two British Airborne Divisions formed (though several 'independant' brigades were formed including the Canadian, Polish, French, Norweigen and Indian).

    The Air-landing units were formed on a slightly different basis. The military decided to convert certain infantry units 'en-masse' to glider troops. While not strictly volunteers, soldiers were able to gain posting to another unit if they did not wish to become a glider soldier. Thus the air-landed units benefitted from a higher degree of cohesion than the parachute troops, benefitting from previous years service as a cohesive force. They also carried out the same battle training as the parachute formations, and though always seen as the less glamourous Airborne arm, they were a fundamental part of the British Airborne Division. Without troops such as Major Howard's Company of the Ox & Bucks, D-Day could have been very different, as Glider-Troops were key to successful 'Coup-du-main' operations.

    As with all 'elite' troops the British Airborne forces had a very high combat effectiveness, and they too were deployed as ground troops due to manpower shortages. The 6th Airborne Division fought through the entire Normandy campaign as regular infantry after landing and suffered high casualty rates due to the number of actions they took part in. While this gave ground commanders a formation of very capable and motivated troops, it also was a rather wasteful use of such highly trained personnel.

    Hope that helps... o_O
     
  3. Hedley1972

    Hedley1972 Junior Member

    Thank you so much! This is very informative and most helpful.



    In 1941 the British Airborne force was at a very early stage. The first operation carried out in Italy in Febuary 1941 little more than a glorified sabotage raid and by May 1941 Britain possessed around 500 parachutists.

    I am particularly interested in finding out more about the men involved in this February sabotage raid. Would this early parachute brigade have been called the "1st Airborne Division", or something else, and do you know at all where they were based in the Uk, and where they would have been trained to be paras?

    I shall have a look on the net, but any info you can provide would be gratefully received!

    Thanks again! :)
     
  4. Hedley1972

    Hedley1972 Junior Member

    Do you think it is plausible that a Paratrooper would have been stationed in a small Oxfordshire town, for 6 weeks in Dec 1940/Jan 1941, apparently on his way to active service? I can't quite comprehend why they would be there. Is it more feasible that he was some other type of soldier?
     
  5. TheRedBaron

    TheRedBaron Junior Member

    Hi Mate.

    I can answer all of that as I have the War Office doc and appraisal of British airborne ops... But it will be after the weekend as Im away.

    Will sort you out with the info Sunday night.

    Regards

    Red
     
  6. andy007

    andy007 Senior Member

    Were there (English) Paratroopers from many different Regiments at the time, or did they all belong to the same regiment?
    Please correct me if I am wrong. But I thought a couple of British Infantry regiments were converted to Paratroops for Market garden?
     
  7. No.9

    No.9 Senior Member

    I am particularly interested in finding out more about the men involved in this February sabotage raid. Would this early parachute brigade have been called the "1st Airborne Division", or something else, and do you know at all where they were based in the UK, and where they would have been trained to be paras?

    Britain never set out to have a Parachute Regiment. The first paratroop formation occurred in 1940 and was to be one unit of the Army Commandos. In June 1940 after Dunkerque, Churchill called for an offensive permanent raiding force of 5000 men, selected from volunteers from the disbanding Independent Companies and from existing servicemen excluding forces in France and anyone immediately involved in invasion defence duties. The call was to form ten Commandos of 500 men each. No.2 Commando was assigned the role of being parachute trained and successful volunteers for the Commandos were thereafter given the option to further volunteer for No.2 and become paratroops.

    The unit was formed at Cambrai Barracks, Pertham Down near Tidworth, Hampshire on 22nd June 1940. The unit comprised 62 officers and men divided into 'C' and 'D' Troops, under command of Lt. Col. Jackson, formerly of the Royal Tank Regiment . The men trained at Ringway, Manchester, then only a regional airfield. Britain had no yardstick or training manual to refer to for this new unit, so much was trial-and-error. An aerial entertainer was brought in as an instructor and the RAF provided a few Whitley bombers with drop-holes in the floor.

    The unit continued to grow, as No.2 Commando, till it was decided to expand up to 5000 men and not be part of the Commandos but be regimented in their own right - the Commandos incidentally, were never regimented. Some men chose to return to the Commandos and No.2 Commando was reformed in 1941, largely at this stage from men of the Independent Companies back from Norway and finished with Home defence duties as invasion was no longer considered a real threat.

    Though 'Commando' was the term popular with the men, the public and (most importantly) Churchill, the MOD elected to term them 'Special Service' instead of Commando, despite the connotations of the German 'SS'. In 1941 it was decided to do a test operation to see if it was possible to accurately drop a small force behind enemy lines, destroy a target, then have the men exfiltrate themselves for evacuation. The men conducting this raid were given the title 'II Special Air Service', being '2' in Roman numerals with the addition of 'Air' to their existing Special Service title. This however, was not the origin of 11 SAS nor the SAS in general which came about later in North Africa. It was though, the first time the SAS title was used if only for this one raid.

    On 10th February, 1941, Operation Colossus took place over Italy using six Whitleys bombers and a submarine. You can read about this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Colossus

    The first operation the paratroops conducted as the 1st Parachute Brigade didn't take place until a year later on 27th February, 1942, with Operation Biting at Bruneval, France. Read more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Biting

    I would suggest getting a copy of 'The Red Beret' by Hilary St.George-Saunders. Out of print but not hard to find on Abebooks or Amazon.

    No.9
     
  8. Hedley1972

    Hedley1972 Junior Member

    Thank you very much No.9 , this is all very helpful and interesting, especially the information about the initial formation of the Unit in Hampshire. Thanks also for the book recommendation.

    RedBaron, I look forward to hearing from you after the weekend - have a good one!
     

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