Panzerfaust testing

Discussion in 'Weapons, Technology & Equipment' started by Bodston, May 13, 2007.

  1. Bodston

    Bodston Little Willy

    Could this be the nice man with the Holy Grant tank?
    What date would you estimate from the uniform?
     

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  2. Kyt

    Kyt Very Senior Member

    1960s
     
  3. morse1001

    morse1001 Very Senior Member

  4. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique

    Yes would agree with 60s, but he appears to have 44 Ptn web on though, so maybe TA?
     
  5. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    It doesn't look at all like HEAT impacts, rather multiple autocannon, 20mm or 30mm AP. And it's not a Grant but a Sherman.
     
  6. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    The highly entertaining joint owner of the Grant we talked to is one Col. John Gillman.
    Colonel John Gillman, tank tester, British Army, has spent his entire career at the heart of British tank development and the Centurion was his first love. He says: "When I joined my regiment, away back in 1968... From here.
    (Which clears up my puzzlement at his apparent age combined with testing Panzerschreck/Raketenpanzerbusche projectiles, they must just have still had lots 'lying around' so long after the war for whatever effect they were testing.)
    They're surely doing the same thing to that poor old M4 aren't they.
    Did you see any more pictures with this one?
    Trying to find a contemporary shot on the internet, he turns up loads in recovery/restoration pictures elsewhere.
     
  7. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Za, Bod didn't actually say that was a Grant mate ;).
    We saw his M3 and thought the same thing; 20mm range target. Chatting to him revealed German shaped charge projectiles are what blew all the finger-sized holes in the Grant, very much like that Sherman.
    YouTube - Colander M3 Grant
    bcec1a0c.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  8. Bodston

    Bodston Little Willy

    That's him, John Gillman. I was struggling to remember his name. So he was 'in' during the '60's.. Surprising to think they were still strapping German hollow charges to stuff then isn't it. Possible though. So the chap in the photo could be him.
    I know that the tank in the photo is a Sherman Za. I reckon a late model M4A3(76mm). It has the 47 degree sloped hull and probably the wide track HVSS, look how far out the idler sits. It is missing all the tin work for the wider sand shields.
    I am sure that the damage is the same as his Grant, ie. hollow charge HEAT weapons and not 20mm gunfire at all. Imagine the energy you would need in a 20mm bullet to blast straight through that armour. This is before depleted uranium rounds remember.
    Here is another shot of the Grant.
     

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  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    My rear view.
     

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  10. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    I am amazed! Do you people mean somedy had the patience to fix shaped charges to the Grant and detonated them, repeating the processo umptten times? What the heck for?

    As for the Sherman in the first pic, it still looks like impacts, look at the shape of the oblique 'scars' on the barrel.
     
  11. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    He described long term (months) of strapping faust projectiles to the old thing and them then being fired remotely. It was apparently the very first example of the type to reach the UK and thus was chosen for these indignities, the faust/schreck testing was presumably urgent and required a current vehicle..
    The hulk was also used later for testing ammunition bin explosions (until 1970) and I think this is where Col. Gillman must have come in.
    Though It really wouldn't surprise me if ww2 munitions were used so long after the event in Britains perpetually cash-strapped military & research environment, if they were stable & predictable then I suppose they could still have scientific worth for testing armour effects.
     
  12. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    As for the Sherman in the first pic, it still looks like impacts, look at the shape of the oblique 'scars' on the barrel.


    And around the curve of the turret....

    Kev
     
  13. Bodston

    Bodston Little Willy

    As for the Sherman in the first pic, it still looks like impacts, look at the shape of the oblique 'scars' on the barrel.

    I would agree that the Sherman has been shot at, rather than the charges being applied, all the impacts seem to be from one side. But by using the evidence of the damage to the Grant, to me this indicates that the impacts on the Sherman were caused by the testing of hollow charge HEAT weapons. Quite devastating.
     
  14. ltdan

    ltdan Nietenzähler

    alberk likes this.
  15. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Excellent - thank you, Itdan!
     

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