Lets start to say that Davis Stirling did not raise the first SAS unit in the British Army... (oeps!) The First SAS unit that was reorganised - and saw action under the name of 'SAS' was No.11 SAS... One of the members is a well known British officer who took part in it one and only mission was after the war also the CO of 22 SAS later... Dean-Drummond (of Arnhem fame)! I do not know why everyone keeps saying Sterling was in command of the first SAS unit... That it was his idea.... Just look at the facts... 11 SAS under took its first operation in February 1941... .. Stirling's SAS - on the same - basis was organised only a few months later... on the same concept (dropping small party's by parachute behind enemy lines). So Stirling just copied an idea already in existance... So why is everyone saying Stirling raised the SAS while this is not the case ? Why does not the men that served with the first SAS unit ever get the gredit they deserve instead of always mentioning the wrong name(s) such as forinstance Stirling...
My uncle was in 1st SAS and died at Termoli, 1943. His name was Chris O'Dowd,MM. I am researching his story and wondered if you could help with a few things. I know a good deal about his fighting days but I am not sure how he came to join the regiment. He served with the 1st Irish Guards in Norway and joined the SAS in 1941, I think. I would like to know something about his training for the SAS, how long it took and where it took place, would it have been Hereford?
G O'Dowd as you say that your uncle died at Termoli he would have been - more than likely - in "B" squadron of 2nd SAS under Roy Farran - Blair (Paddy) Mayne was C.O. of that regiment and they went passed Termoli to create havoc further along the coast. Joining in 1941 - I don't think they were trained at Hereford as this seemed to come about after the war - most likely he was in 1st battalion IG's when they came back from Norway and were hanging about waiting to fight somewhere else ..... pretty boring which probably prompted him to look elsewhere for the action Cheers
Thanks Tom, He was actually in A squadron, 1st SAS with Paddy Mayne.They sometimes went around terrorising the Germans with shamrocks painted on the bonnets of their jeeps, apparently!
Can anybody give me information on the training methods of the Regiment around 1941-42? How long the course lasted, where it took place...etc.?
G., that early in the regiment's history I don't think there was a "course" Most of the heads that gravitated towards Stirling in the Middle East were the disbanded members of the two Commando battalions that were disbanded into General Reserve after Crete and Syria; there had been four Commandos (given spurious battalion IDs) sent to the Med in search of operations for them LOL - the guts of two were lost in the rearguard on Crete, one fought in the invasion of Syria, and the fourth shuttled in and out of the garrison of Cyprus! In the absence of any visible mission options as formated Commandos, the remnants were disbanded into the General Reserve towards the autumn of 1941 IIRC, and a lot of those then responded to Stirling's trawl. So they had instead gone through the Commando course in the UK...
21st Battalion SAS (Artists Rifles) are a Volunteer TA unit, they were originally formed during WWII and assisted the Greek underground earning the title 21 Artist Rifles, hence the cap badge is also a battle honor, They were later adopted in to the SAS and were finally disbanded in 1947. It was then reformed to be a TA unit in the early 60's. The suggestion that 21 SAS was a combination of 1 and 2 SAS is utter rubbish invented by someone trying to look good.... Do not assume, and don''t start a battle you have no experiance of ... Keep your asprin and bandaides handy you may need them!!!! I assure you this is a subject where your knowledge is aquired from myths and fiction... Mine is from reality...:p Errr No. I am afraid that you are miles out. Based on the above, you should be awfully careful having a go at others. The Artists Rifles was a Volunteer Unit formed in 1859 and the Cap Badge (Mars and Minerva - Roman Gods NOT Greek.) was designed by the famous Victorian engraver William Wyon. They became 21 SAS (Artists Rifles) in 1947. The use of 21 was indeed a combination of 1 SAS and 2 SAS.
As a matter of interest, nice stamp and coin set here from the Royal Perth Mint commemorating the 50 anniversary of the Aust SAS Spider
Can anybody give me information on the training methods of the Regiment around 1941-42? How long the course lasted, where it took place... Hey O'Dowd: Based upon my research all I can gather from the "early days" method of training is this: it was probably based upon the same style and method of training when Stirling, Mayne, etc. had served in the various Middle East Commando units, i.e., 8 and 11 [ Scottish ] Commando, etc. I can't find anything specific on blocks of training instructions, written instructions, written orders based exclusively on commando-style training. Jim Almonds [ from his daughter's book ] made mention that night marching on-compass-heading, Allied and Axis weapons recognition, conduct of the ambush, patrolling, parachuting instruction [ PLFs, canopy control, etc. ] were the main courses taught. The para portion, certainly before '42. After the first operation, the unit probably concentrated on jeep-borne infiltration, navigation [ with LRDG instruction ] and certainly explosives although I think based upon the Lewes bomb, that was probably something everyone took part in. Thats as far as my research has taken me. I've probably overlooked something I am sure of it, but it seemed to be catch-as-catch-can back then. I think the unit survived only because of the leadership of Stirling and the officers and the solid foundation of NCOs the unit possessed, several of which were later commissioned and went on to distinguished careers. Mick
1942 - 1945 1 SAS (British) 2 SAS (British) 3 SAS (French) 4 SAS (French) 5 SAS (Belgian Independant Parachute Company) 1946 21 SAS (TA) 1947 21 SAS (Artists) Volunteers (TA) 1950 Malayan Scouts (SAS) 1951 22 SAS 1959 23 SAS (TA) Australian SAS - 25 July 1957 1st SAS Company Spider
How can I find out more about L detachment? My father was a PTe with the Blackwatch (parachutist) then with Layforce C Batallion then L Detachment. He was captured near Tmimi Nov 41 according to his citation and imprisoned in various POw camps in Italy, escaping and working with the Partisans. My mother , when she was alive insists that he was listed in a book published in the 1960s (early) which recorded the problem with parchutes failing and the sandstorm drop when my father was "lost". I never asked him questions when he was alive and frankly from the bits I know he never talked about his experiences, my mothers information came from men who knew him and the medical officer (?) who was incharege of rehabilitation (?) which took place in Llandudno My curiosity only strarted when I was going back though documentation and re read his citation, the signitures appear to read Alb Wemyss (MS) and unreadable but DMI underneath the other signiture... thanks
Hi and welcome to the forum. I think the best place for you to start from what you have said would be to apply for his service records first and take it from there. http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/searching-someone-military-genealogy/19865-latest-information-forms-service-records-2009-a.html Regards Andy
my grandfather was a member of 2nd sas as of 1943 after serving with 1 SS Reg, layfore D Batt ( captured on crete and spent year hiding till escape via sub) 50 M.E. com and the French forigen legion ( syria) all after spending his teenage years fighting in the spanish civil war.all in all he spent nearly 10 years fighting and was finaly killed by asbestosis from his work place. anyone looking to find out about thier sas relatives should first get hold of thier service record from teh army records office in glasgow. you will need proof of kinship and a death certificate. if its a spose its free if its not then it will cost £30. then you send a copy of the file they send you ( might take some time as theres a war on and current serving members of the forces take presidence over former members) to teh sas asscosiation in london ( its a po box address in london available through thier website) they will send you anything they have free of charge bearing your relatives name ( this is not very extensive which is understandable ) after that you can make enquiries into the records stored at kew public records office and the the Imperial war museum via teh internet or by phone call, and arrange to see them on a certain day or you can get photo copes sent to you however this is expensive. the best method before going to the museum and record route ( due to cost) is to use the records you have obtained to narrow your serch ( dates of service, previous units and other info ) to purchase books on the subject examples: his records had 50 me com written in the margin. after a bit of serching on teh net I found out this ment 50 middle east commando, and so bought cahrles messangers book on that unit and found teh backround I needed to follow him about there also layforce which was teh rear guard on crete which I found out as a spaniard he was placed in D battalion of that unit. also 1 SS Reg which meant 1 special service regiment that meant he took part in thier only operation I know of which was operation agreement which was a total failure and what was left was either returned to parent unit or joined 1 on or 2 sas ( he joined 2) also its amazing how much family members know without ever realising. little stories that came out that can help you in your reaserch example: my original family name is geronimo, it is now williams. it was changed in a bar in phillipville algeria by members of the sas asmy grandfather and some other spaniards were joining ( as spaniards on capture they would have been sent to a concerntration camp rather than a pow camp and starved to death). the story continues that eitehr on teh suggestion of themsleves or teh sas men the names being bandied about were francis drake, robert bruce, and walter raleigh. just balerdi my granfathers best friend was changed to robert bruce ( he is on teh 2nd sas roll of honour as he was killed in the last week of the war on op tombola italy) but the others were given normal name allegedly as an sas officer thought the joke went a bit too far so francico geronimo became frank williams and that story in one guise or anther was handed down with no real proof, until I looked at the circumstatial evidence. another spaniard theres son gave me teh same story, and teh fact that 2nd sas was born in philipville tells me that its somewhere near to being true. also robert bruces name being what it is. its just a case of whether teh detail is true and who suggested teh names. according to my granfther in his version ( He died when I was one so I never witnessed this ) he sais it was teh spaniards who suggested the thougrally english names anyway hope this helps and if anyone knows any more detail of the spaniards who served in the units I have mentioned that I would love to hear about it
Good Afternoon I am trying to find information regarding a photograph that i have of a regiment. On the reverse it states 36 of the originals 1st sas 1941. This is the only information that i have and my father was in this photograph. I am trying to find out the history of his time in the war. Sadly he has passed away now and i have no leads. I have been advised to post the photo on here but as yet not found out how too! I hope you may be able to help me or know someone that can Kind regards G3DCV
Hi I am trying to gain any information regarding my Father Alan Watson who was one of the original members of the 1st sas 1941. Can you help me with any information i have a photgraph of 36 of the original men but would mlike to ntalk to someone he may have served with or relative of.
Nice one. Actually, the wartime SAS regiments started with 1SAS, 2SAS, not sure if there was a third. [post=29884]Quoted post[/post][/b] actully the original unit was called "L detachment Special Air Service" The Special Air Service title itself was an example of deception by the british Army! H.Q. S.A.S. Brigade (plus F Squadron Phantom) ist S.A.S. Regiment 2nd S.A.S. Regiment 3rd S.A.S. (French) Regiment 4th (French) Regiment 1st Belgian (Independent) Squadron Cowles, Virginia., The Phantom Major , Guild, London, 1983 P307 I cannot believe that this thread has reached this point without mention of Dudley Clarke. He was in charge of the A Force Deception operations in the Middle East. He agreed to support David Sterling and in the formation of his force as long as Sterling agreed to be photographed with his men lined up wearing "Special Air Service" shoulder titles to support the idea of a parachute force threatening Crete. Clarke is also credited with naming the Commandos and the US Rangers. . .
