Original Cap Badge die sets now on ebay

Discussion in 'WW2 Militaria' started by Mr Jinks, Jun 8, 2018.

  1. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    Apologies if this has been posted already but these rare beasts have appeared (loads of them) Unfortunately `rare` cap badges will no doubt turn up more frequently now :(

    The seller of this batch is
    dechailewai | eBay Stores

    Sets include ;-
    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE NORTH IRISH HORSE KC

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE HIGHLAND CYCLIST BN.

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE BAYS - KING'S & QUEEN'S

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE 13/18TH., HUSSARS

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE CHESHIRE REGIMENT

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE BLACK WATCH - QUEEN'S C

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE GREEN HOWARDS WW2

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE 16TH., LANCERS Q.CROWN

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE 9/12TH LANCERS Q.CROWN

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE K.O.S.B. QUEEN'S CROWN

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE ROYAL SCOTS REGIMENT

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE ROYAL WELSH FUSILIERS


    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE MILITARY POLICE KC

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE K.S.L.I. CAP BADGE

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE K.S.L.I. BERET BADGE

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE R.HORSE ART BERET BADGE

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE R.ARTILLERY BERET BADGE

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE JERSEY LIGHT INFANTRY

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE A.P.T.C. Q.C.

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE 12TH., LANCERS Q.CROWN

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE DORSETSHIRE REGIMENT

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE EAST SURREY REGIMENT

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE ROYAL GREEN JACKETS QC

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE RADNORSHIRE HOME GUARD

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE EDINBURGH U.O.T.C.

    A SET OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE OF THE ROYAL ARMOURED CORPS KC

    Others can be found on ebay and according to online sources they originated possibly from Gladman & Norman who were a Birmingham manufacturer ?

    More here on the sets available and some background
    Arnhem Jim: An Alert: Original Dies for British Army Cap Badges could Potentially prove Troublesome

    [​IMG]


    Kyle
     
    Ramiles and bamboo43 like this.
  2. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Thanks for posting Kyle, fascinating to see these, but as you say, potential worries for a flood of re-strikes on the market in the near future.
     
  3. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    I generally keep an occasional eye out for what's currently being sold variously as "24th Lancers", all too often numerous fakes and restrikes etc. etc.

    Those sold as genuine, vintage, scarce, original and rare etc. you "hope" have some basis for this assertion.

    It is sometimes, quite tempting, to point out the more obvious "mistakes" but the other side of that, I guess, is that the reproducers of such just learn how to get things a bit more "right", or are a bit more nuanced in what they suggest that they "think" something "might be".

    I don't even know what the policy / policies of sites is / are regarding such. Merely just a big "buyer beware" ?

    I don't think I've even seen the sellers of such have less than very high 95+ positive feedback.

    There may be something about these sets "OF DIES AND TOOLS TO PRODUCE THE CAP BADGE" on the British Badge Forum already?

    There's certainly numerous threads there on "Reproductions, Restrikes, Fakes, Forgeries, and Copies" etc.
    Reproductions, Restrikes, Fakes, Forgeries, and Copies - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

    I did glance at some of the bits on "fakes" and "restrikes" in: "British Army Cap Badges of the Second World War By Peter Doyle, Chris Foster" : British Army Cap Badges of the Second World War

    Where you see things like "recognising fakes and forgeries is becoming an ever more difficult task".

    I wonder if some kind of evidence trail ;-) i.e. this badge was bought from X, who got it from Y, all the way back to where the badge originally came from, could ever be provided ;-)
     
  4. Rich Payne

    Rich Payne Rivet Counter Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Wonderful things. I imagine that only the truly rare would warrant re-making. There will still be the matter of fabricating and fixing sliders and loops. Is a re-strike on original dies a 'fake' or simply later production ?
     
  5. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    I think that this will be the grey area into which the more unscrupulous dealer will hide, if these are used in such a way.
     
  6. SDP

    SDP Senior Member

    My definitions:
    Genuine or Original = made by a properly appointed manufacturer with the intention of the badge being used by a member of that regiment etc even if not actually issued - after all, why would genuine badges be produced for any other reason
    Restrike = copy by the original or other manufacturer using the original dies etc and to the same finished quality standards as genuine badges - normally for the aftermarket/collectors market
    Fake = anything else (implying not from the original dies) from the accurate to the downright diabolical and including diabolical quality restrikes.
     
  7. Ramiles

    Ramiles Researching 9th Lancers, 24th L and SRY

    It is fascinating, I was looking at some examples of die casting cap badges on youtube and it seemed to involve sets of tools such as....

    [​IMG]

    And, as the article (mentioned above): Arnhem Jim: An Alert: Original Dies for British Army Cap Badges could Potentially prove Troublesome

    Says: "Although obviously not of the same concern as sets to produce law enforcement badges (obsolete or not), there has been immediate understandable discussion in the badge forums regarding the potential nefarious use of these dies to produce reproductions of certain rare and/or sought after badges. Based on forum discussion to date there is nothing illegal in the possession of the die sets, however it would take a No. 3 Fly Press (not a massive investment) to actually produce any badges (and the requisite metal blanks in the correct metallurgy and gauge)."

    ...and quite a bit of space and other equipment as well, albeit anyone used to producing such on any scale could, equally, probably produce the requisite dies and tools, hopefully they (the originals) all go to a "good" home ;-) :

     

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