Operation Varsity Places nowadays

Discussion in 'WW2 Battlefields Today' started by MoeA, Aug 25, 2014.

  1. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Helen,

    I don't really trust the map reference given by the Coordinate Translator for the field grave site (169497). It lies in the coordinate box 16E and 49N. I think it could be a little further south and closer to Grenzweg road? I can't figure out how to lay 10x10 grid over that particular box to get a closer reading.

    I don't see a Waldestrasse - do you mean Waldstrabe which is presumably the same street? There was what appears to have been a building on the corner with Grezweg and could be a better match as you say? Schmermannskoth is the name given to the southern portion of the woods east of Grenzweg. Further north it is named Wildemann in old maps.

    The Cordinator Translator can't handle 8 figure map references so you have to lop off the the 4th and 8th numbers. Anyway you look at it the glider location for CN 347 RE (17055200?) is close to the intersection of 17E and 52N and as you say there is no glider on the plot map at that location. Curiously there is one very close to 17E and 51N to the south. As there is some doubt concerning 17055200? I suggested 170510 as a possibility but we don't really know for sure.

    Varsity Glider Plot - Crop-2.jpg

    Regards ...
     
  2. Helen Arnold

    Helen Arnold Member

    Hi Cee, yes Waldsrabe. There was a rogue e in there and I was too lazy to find a German keyboard symbol lol, I use ss rather than b.
    As you say, there is a doubt on the co-ordinates given.

    In case anyone else is doing RA research, there is a roll of honour 1937 - 1947 by Buteman on here with photos of the headstones listed alphabetically. It runs to 200+ pages but would allow anyone else to find the thread. This is the page with R Tawn.
    Royal Artillery/Royal Horse Artillery - Roll of Honour, 1939-47

    Look forward to getting there in person but this is a good consolation in the meantime. Shame I didn’t do a bit more a year ago and find this when my mother in law was alive. She said his parents had visited but she never had. She wouldn’t be classed as next of kin as they were only engaged, not married. The other thing she said was she was told he was blown up in a vehicle. I can’t tell from the information on Pegasus archive whether they managed to unload their glider and therefore use the jeep, meaning they could have covered more ground (or maybe used a jeep from one of the other gliders.)
     
  3. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    One thing I will say, the glider plot map was compiled from aerial pictures a day or two after ( although someone on the ground may have tried to note the locations of the 53 WY ones as they have mostly accurate locations) what I do know for certain is that some locals stripped the gliders and used the wood on their farms for repairs etc etc. So it may be the glider up there was just out of aerial picture coverage and or it was fairly well bastardised making it difficult to spot on the photos.

    Alex
     
  4. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    I could only find one aerial that shows the areas we are interested in. It comes from a CD sent by Alex and is not the best quality unfortunately. It was taken at high altitude and shows all the various LZs. Hopefully someday the many aerials contained in post Operation reports turn up nicely scanned.

    00000226.jpg

    Regards ...
     
  5. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    I was just looking at this exact picture! The white dots show Horsa locations and squares show Hamilcar. It’s from this aerial that that glider map was created.
    So there’s apparently no glider at 170 522 but one close by on the south west corner of that copse of wood. The field burial site is due south and on the western edge of the straight edge of the Diersfordtwald. Could it be our man ( and crew) made it to the wood and followed the wood line south knowing they were too far north on landing? I know for certain that part of the area was still in German hands, some men of 12 Para were captured on the main east west road through it.
    Alex
     
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  6. MoeA

    MoeA Member

    That's a pretty interesting map you got there Cee. If you guys need anymore pictures or information from the local area let me know.
     
  7. MoeA

    MoeA Member

    Hello together, heres a little rework done on DZ-A.
     

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  8. MoeA

    MoeA Member

    Cee and Alex1975uk did you guys found any more information on the Glider that was suspected at 170520/170510? I found some aerial pictures from the 25th of March 45 that shows a Glider near 170520
     
  9. MoeA

    MoeA Member

    As far as I understood this correct picture number 1 was suspected as 170520's landing site (refeering to Cee's post). However I researched through some aerial photos and found this one here ( picture 2 and 3 which is a zoomed version of the suspected gilder) which was taken on the 25th of march on 45. I looked at the image carefully and couldnt find any other glider on it and it also seems to be pretty far off from any LZ.
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    Is this the quality of zoom you get with the NCAP subscription? I did look again and found the areas of interest but haven’t paid anything yet so you’re ahead of me there! Defiantly a glider on its own. Looks like the nose is damaged?
     
  11. MoeA

    MoeA Member

    Hey Alex, yes thats the quality zoom although I zoomed a bit out to give a better overview where its located at. The nose looks damaged, I thought the same to be honest.
     
  12. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    Thanks for that. I’ll have to subscribe now! I found a lot of photos of the DZ and LZ dated 24th March and assuming it was a flight that went over at say, 09:00 as there’s no parachutes or aircraft anywhere.
     
  13. MoeA

    MoeA Member

    Hey Alex, yeah you can actually find aerial pictures from before and after the jump so I assume the 23rd of March ones where reconnaissance flights to check out possi le threats.
     
  14. Alex1975uk

    Alex1975uk Well-Known Member

    Yes I agree but there’s a few dated 24th March but obviously before 10:00 am.
     
  15. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    Good morning MoeA - interesting find! I have come up with a slightly different grid position:
    GL1 Kopie.jpg
    Bildschirmfoto 2020-12-29 um 10.21.14.png

    I found that some airborne casualties were buried quite close. Major Dixon was with 4 Airlanding Anti Tank Battery:
    Dixon grave.jpg
     
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  16. MoeA

    MoeA Member

    alberk Thanks for sharing that! I didnt noticed those skidmarks but now that you mentioned it I guess youre right, I cant zoom in any further and its hard to tell but I think its pretty obvious.
     
  17. MoeA

    MoeA Member

    I checked another picture and you can slightly make out the wing and the tail on the crashsite, so Im sure now that it is a glider. I checked the location on google maps and the farm thats on the aerial picture to the west of the crashsite is still there nowadays. Whenever the lockdown is over Ill visit it to see if I can get some more information about the crashsite. Its just a 15min drive.
     
  18. MoeA

    MoeA Member

    This is from another aerial picture, taken on the 25th of March aswell.
     

    Attached Files:

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  19. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    MoeA, that last photo you posted suggest it's more a trail of debris than skidmarks - or both.
    Also: Good photo of LZ A further up! That used to be my stomping ground. Grew up in Bergerfurth.
     
  20. alberk

    alberk Well-Known Member

    MoeA - these 8 men were buried at 169518 - right where you located the glider. The six RA soldiers were with 53 (The Worcestershire Yeomanry) Airlanding Lt. Regt. Podmore.jpg
     
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