Operation Pegasus - which Engineer unit?

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by horsapassenger, Jan 4, 2012.

  1. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Idler

    Thanks - I found a file reference for 210 Coy RE in the NWE files at the NA so will pop over there next week to have a look at it.
    Sadly Leo Heaps who wrote the first book covering Pegasus appears to have laid a number of false trails which have been picked up and adopted by others when they have written later books and articles.

    John
     
  2. idler

    idler GeneralList

    I think two of these will clinch it.

    The third is a non-Pegasus MM as the signatures are further evidence that they were 30 Corps Corps Tps.

    Should be an interesting war diary...
     

    Attached Files:

  3. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Idler

    What can I say but "Brilliant" - there's no doubting that for proof. Can I thank everybody else for the help that they gave (Paul you're still welcome on Sunday!!)

    John
     
  4. kingarthur

    kingarthur Well-Known Member

    Some very good detective work there chap, most enjoyable to watch as a bystander.
     
  5. ronald

    ronald Senior Member

    So that is solved, brilliant, now who supplied the boats, were they from Canadian Engineers or their own?


    Ron
     
  6. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Ronald

    Watch this space - I'm off to the Archives in the morning!!

    John
     
  7. idler

    idler GeneralList

    I still can't believe that nobody's worked this out before. Anyway, happy hunting tomorrow, John.

    Andrew
     
    Paul Pariso likes this.
  8. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Andrew (Idler)

    I think that people have accepted what Leo Heaps said in his book at face value, after all he is described by Dobie as being the officer in charge of the boats on the night and should therefore speak from a position of knowledge..
    In his book "The Grey Goose of Arnhem" he is quite specific "The sappers from the engineers of the Forty-third Wessex Division, who manned the boats, waited for my signal".
    It's not until you start searching for evidence in the war diaries of those units to support that statement that you run into difficulties. I'm not sure who the 210th were with but they didn't come up as being with the 43rd.
    Hopefully we'll find out tomorrow, thanks to you!!

    John
     
  9. 17thDYRCH

    17thDYRCH Senior Member Patron

    John

    We eagerly await your findings...


    Randy
     
  10. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Folks

    Just back from the archives and Drew (Drew5233), who was sitting opposite me, will confirm that I had a big smile on my face as I read the 210th RE file. It's certainly provided the answers that I was looking for.
    In answer to Ronald's question they provided both the boats and the crews to man them.
    Once again thanks a lot for your assistance

    John
     
  11. ronald

    ronald Senior Member

    I still find it a bit confusing, i thought i read on a 506PIR website that Canadians supplied the boats, Also, do you have any idea where the unit
    with the boats was at the time of Operation Berlin?

    Ron
     
  12. airborne medic

    airborne medic Very Senior Member

    Ronald,

    Never trust what you read on the internet unless Horsapassenger has checked it out!

    Good work everyone......
     
  13. Paul Pariso

    Paul Pariso Very Senior Member

    Idler

    What can I say but "Brilliant" - there's no doubting that for proof. Can I thank everybody else for the help that they gave (Paul you're still welcome on Sunday!!)

    John

    Phew!! :D

    Excellent work fellas, Idler especially!

    All the best.............. :)

    PS Has Drew now got his own chair at Kew as he seems to spend all his life there? :D
     
  14. ronald

    ronald Senior Member

    Ronald,

    Never trust what you read on the internet unless Horsapassenger has checked it out!

    Good work everyone......

    Lol, i can't even recall where i read it, i guess i have to do some digging.

    Ron
     
  15. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    Ronald
    It's another one of the many misconceptions that I came across and which sent me off looking at the Canadian Engineer war diaries. There is another common one which says that the Engineer unit involved was one of those that had participated in Operation Berlin. As you'll see we now know for certain that neither of those stories is correct.
    To answer your earlier question the 210th arrived in Nijmegen at 1300 hrs on the 24th September and on the 25/26th, when Operation Berlin was taking place, they were still settling in at Nijmegen.

    John
     
  16. idler

    idler GeneralList

    To be fair, Cees Haverhoek deserves some credit for getting the number right (and I don't mean that sarcastically!) We'll have to split the 10% for inspiration, leaving 90% for HP's perspiration.
    So when's the book coming out?
     
  17. wtid45

    wtid45 Very Senior Member

    Idler, Randy and Wtid 45

    Many thanks for your messages. I have the war diary and other reports for the 23rd Canadian Engineers and although they were involved in Operation Berlin and Pegasus 2 they were certainly not involved in Pegasus 1.
    I'll have a look at where the British 210th Royal Engineers were at the time - although they were not part of the 43rd Wessex Division.

    John
    John my fault mainly because I still have not got around to getting JS books so I made a assumption........rather dangerous to do on this forum too many knowledgeble people about ;):D
     
  18. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Folks

    Just back from the archives and Drew (Drew5233), who was sitting opposite me, will confirm that I had a big smile on my face as I read the 210th RE file. It's certainly provided the answers that I was looking for.
    In answer to Ronald's question they provided both the boats and the crews to man them.
    Once again thanks a lot for your assistance

    John

    Haha Even I got excited when I saw the map ! :lol:
     
  19. horsapassenger

    horsapassenger Senior Member

    To be fair, Cees Haverhoek deserves some credit for getting the number right (and I don't mean that sarcastically!) We'll have to split the 10% for inspiration, leaving 90% for HP's perspiration.
    So when's the book coming out?
    Idler - a book - I agree that it's about time that something definitive was produced. When I'm satisfied that I've finally sorted out fact from fiction who knows.
    Once again thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
    John
     
  20. kingarthur

    kingarthur Well-Known Member

    Idler - a book - I agree that it's about time that something definitive was produced. When I'm satisfied that I've finally sorted out fact from fiction who knows.
    Once again thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
    John


    Having help so many others with research for their publications,it certainly would good to see a book with your name across the front cover John.
     

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