Whilst out on a family walk at the weekend I happened upon the grave of one of NZ's greatest military heroes Sir Bernard Freyberg. It sits in the picturesque churchyard of St Martha's church in Surrey atop a high hill overlooking the most beautiful valley. It struck me as being possibly the simplest most unostentatious grave I have ever seen which says a lot for the great man's simplicity and starightforwardness. Then I noticed an even smaller cross behind it his son Paul a Guards officer (taken POW at Anzio).
Good stuff Macca. One of the reasons I always make the effort to check out cemeteries & churchyards is these chance discoveries. Things like finding 'Buster' Crabb at Milton Cemetery in Pompey, & Monty at a country Churchyard in Hampshire, when you weren't expecting them, always leave an impression on me.
Good stuff Macca. One of the reasons I always make the effort to check out cemeteries & churchyards is these chance discoveries. Things like finding 'Buster' Crabb at Milton Cemetery in Pompey, & Monty at a country Churchyard in Hampshire when you weren't expecting them always leave an impression on me. Buster Crabb, is buried in Milton cemetery pompey well you never know do you, my sister lives in Milton and I never knew this will have to take a look next time im down that way.Got to ask Adam, did you stand at his grave and ask him just what did happen that fateful day
Some additional info on the chap: Bernard Freyberg, 1st Baron Freyberg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They are really good photos Macca and proof that WW2 history is all around us and can surprise us at times!
did you stand at his grave and ask him just what did happen that fateful day Crossed my mind, along with whether he was buried there at all... (Milton's a great Cemetery by the way, If you like that kind of thing. The Highland Road one's also worth a shufti: Highland Road Cemetery)
What always strikes me about BF was how suitable he was to command the NZers. The greatest example of this was when a very senior British commander (I seem to remember it being Straffer Gott but may be wrong) visited Freybergs CP in the desert. Upon commenting that the Kiwi soldiers didn't seem to be too bothered about saluting senior officers Freyberg replied 'No they're not but if you wave to them they'll wave back'. Only the former dentist from Matamata could understand just what made us Antipodeans tick.
What always strikes me about BF was how suitable he was to command the NZers. The greatest example of this was when a very senior British commander (I seem to remember it being Straffer Gott but may be wrong) visited Freybergs CP in the desert. Upon commenting that the Kiwi soldiers didn't seem to be too bothered about saluting senior officers Freyberg replied 'No they're not but if you wave to them they'll wave back'. Only the former dentist from Matamata could understand just what made us Antipodeans tick. Whatever about Saluting, they did alright on the Battlefield if I remember correctly!
If you saluted a officer on operations today that would be a sure fire way of getting at least shed load of extras. Those NZ types seem like they had there heads on if you ask me for not saluting. Cheers Andy
Great Tom, Thanks for knowing it was Alex, the comments are mentioned in both the biography's I have but neither mention which officer it was. I thought it was Gott only because I had an idea that it had happened before Alex was appointed. Would you or your mates have ever chosen to wave at senior officer rather than saluting? Best wishes Macca
Macca - the only times we never saluted was in the front line as snipers were invariably around waiting to see who were the leaders so that they could pick them off - the Officers never wore their pips and crowns either - that soon changed the minute we left the front lines.........the Kiwi's seldom saluted anyone - but they had a different viewpoint to anyone else - their Order groups were more of a discussion session than any orders - they had a very bad time at Cassino and were not quite the same afterwards..... Cheers
Hi Tom I've known and talked to a lot of NZ Div vets who completely agree with what you say. Before Cassino they all reckon that even the hardest times (Crete, the relief of Tobruk, Minqar Quaim, Alamein and Mareth made them stronger (or more used to war maybe). However as you know Cassino was the ruin of several good divisions which still had to pick themselves up and carry on. I have had a long association with chaps from the Maori btn who lost more men in the ruins of Cassino town than at any other time with far less to show for it. I know that Freyberg has been castigated for asking for the bombing of the monastery but everyone I have talked with said that even if it wasn't defended it's presence was like an evil menace and watching it pulverised was worth more to morale than seeing a fresh div enter the line. Was it still standing when you chpas from 6th Armd arrived for your crack at it? Cheers Macca
Macca - the 28th Bde certainly lost their share - especially at the Station when the 6th Armd backed them up - this was where the famous statement was made - "Why do you think we are called "Kiwi's"" - no answer - "its because we cannot fly - we are blind - and becoming extinct up here " they got that right as the Monastery was bombed on 15th & 17th feb - 6th armd were there late for Cassino 11 - days later....the bombing was a day early and caught the 4th Indian on the wrong foot..the fog of war ! 6th Armd didn't actually have a crack until the fourth Battle - Diadem -then that was up the Valley as the Poles and 4th Div were looking after the Monastery - 6th Armd with 78th and 1st & 5th Canadian plus the 8th Indian went at the Gustav line - The 4th Indian were never the same again either..... Cheers
Tom- I had the honour of meeting a Texan from the 36th div at Omaha last year. He told me that he was the only survivor from his squad as they attempted to cross the Rapido. He stumbled in the dark and broke his ankle falling into a shell hole and it took him a long time to stop feeling guilty and ashamed. He also reckoned that his ankle saved his life twice as he subsequently missed Anzio. As a complete aside he was touring the Normandy beaches with his son who is an MP with todays 4th US Div and who had just finished his second tour in Iraq. His job there was VIP protection and he reckoned that in all his time in country he had not been fired at, roadside bombed or even been threatened, nor had any of his men and he left me in no doubt that the press coverage was interested only in the more sensationalist happenings. An interesting family. Cheers Macca
Macca - That broken ankle saved him for the fiasco at San Pietro where the 36th Div lost around 2000 men in less than two days - that battle was filmed by the famous Hollywood director John Huston - and created Hell in the states and as a result it is never shown at West Point as a training exercise for wannabe's as it is the worst case of Generalship they have ever seen - that was of course - Gen. Mark Clark - who went on to compound his idiocy at Anzio after his stupidity at Salerno and Cassino - but was STILL promoted ! It wasn't as if they had a shortage of Generals - they had fired Terry Allan and Patton by then ! Cheers
Oh Tom...don't let's get started on US Generals of which I agree with you that Clark was perhaps the worst combat commander they had had since George McClellan. Maybe this should be a new thread about Generals and their abilities. I certainly believe that as in civvie life most people have a ceiling of performance above which they become out of their depth. A prime example of this is my original posting - Freyberg. In my humble opinion he was arguably the best divisional commander the Allies had however on both occasions when he was promote to Corps command his record is very modest. The only thing Clark ever did which has impressed me was landing in North Africa to talk to the Vichyists and even that wasn't really successful just brave. Now Terry Allen and Georgie Patton there are 2 combat commanders cut from the same cloth...best not to get me started on them All the best Macca
Macca - you are right - we've been all through the Generals before - and I have to agree that Freyberg was great Div Commander but out of his depth as Corps level - but then he was under Clark at Cassino and Leese at the Gothic - Leese was a great Corps Commander but way short at Army level - tht is why he went East after the Gothic ..... Cheers
I don't really think it mattered who held Army command when Tiny was at Corps.I just get the feeling that his heart wasn't in it and he just wanted to be back with his 2NZ boys. I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that I don't think he did a great job on Crete either (under horribly difficult circumstances I know and I am being really harsh - a bit like the way we tear into the All Blacks when they lose) but I don't think he understood the theory of aerial envelopment and saw the parachute attack as a mere diversion. But then who can say that at that stage of the war they properly understood the nature of parachute attack (apart from Kurt Student).
I would dis agree with you on Freyburg at Crete - he made one big mistake - and Student got lucky - and so many casualties that all German paras were then made into ordinary Infantry - or I should say - extra ordinary Infantry -as Tiny found at the Sangro - Cassino and the Gothic .....as we all did - by then Tiny was and had to be very tired... and needed a good rest which was not to be... Wavel had the experience of the Russian paras in 1931 during an excercise when they landed a whole bde - with Artillery - but it took the British another ten years to form the 1st paras...... Cheers
