El Alamein, the major turning point in North Africa that paved the way for Operation Husky. Also in 1964, Sir Winston Churchill makes his final appearace in the House of Commons. End of an era.
Originally posted by spidge@Jul 27 2005, 02:33 PM El Alamein, the major turning point in North Africa that paved the way for Operation Husky. Also in 1964, Sir Winston Churchill makes his final appearace in the House of Commons. End of an era. [post=36961]Quoted post[/post] This was the end of 1st el Alamein, before Monty took over and before Alam Halfa. 2nd el Alamein, the famous one, was fought in October and November 1942.
Originally posted by angie999+Jul 28 2005, 03:06 AM-->(angie999 @ Jul 28 2005, 03:06 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-spidge@Jul 27 2005, 02:33 PM El Alamein, the major turning point in North Africa that paved the way for Operation Husky. Also in 1964, Sir Winston Churchill makes his final appearace in the House of Commons. End of an era. [post=36961]Quoted post[/post] This was the end of 1st el Alamein, before Monty took over and before Alam Halfa. 2nd el Alamein, the famous one, was fought in October and November 1942. [post=36965]Quoted post[/post] [/b] My apologies. You are certainly correct Angie. Proves I shouldn't write when I am tired. Thank you for the correction.
It is easy to be confused about this, because it is so often forgotten that there were two battles of el Alamein, with the battle of Alam Halfa between them. In fact, because they were all battles on the same basic position between the coast and the Qattara Depression, we could almost say that there were three battles of el Alamein, although that is not how history knows them. Following the debacle of Gazalla, beginning on 14 June, the British (which is shorthand for British and Commonwealth) fell back onto the el Alamein position in a series of "avoidable disasters" (Barrie Pitt in the Crucible of War, vol, II) which included the fall of Tobruk with 33,000 losses out of the total of 70,000. The British army was in a good deal of disarray, with a loss of confidence in their commanders by the troops and corps commanders unwilling to act on the army commander Ritchie's plans. The troops knew they were tough, good soldiers, but they saw in the Germans a level of organisation their own commanders lacked. In these circumstances, the C-in-C, Auchinlech, stepped in, relieved Ritchie on 25 June and took personal command. 1st el Alamein could be said to be a defensive battle, but it developed as an offensive to drive the Germans back. In this respect it failed, but the Germans were stopped. As usual, by the end of the battle supply problems, notably ammunition, severely reduced the fighting capacity of the Deutches Afrika Korps (DAK). So, although the DAK remained a force in being and their position to the south of the line prevented Auchinlech from redeploying as he wished, Rommel was halted. Note, however, that a short pause for resupply would revive the DAK. Montgomery was appointed as the new commander of 8th Army after the first choice, Gott, was killed and was due to take up post on 15 August, although he arrived in theatre a week earlier. The defensive battle (from the British point of view) of Alam Halfa was right at the end of August. Some people try to take credit for the British victory away from Montgomery by saying he used Auchinlech's dispositions. This is largely true, but he hardly had time to redeploy, given the impending German attack and he actually handled the battle differently that Auchinlech would have done in my opinion. I think that Auchinlech would have fought a more mobile battle and used it as the springboard for an offensive if he could, whereas in Montgomery's opinion the army was unfit to fight a major offensive. Thus, having checked Rommel at Alam Halfa, he imposed a pause for training and reorganisation before his own offensive at el Alamein in October. In my opinion, Montgomery's analysis in August was correct and he avoided a possible disaster which could have taken place under Auchinlech. So, in summary, 1st el Alamein was not "the" el Alamein, but it was an important battle and it is good to be able to discuss it.
Originally posted by angie999@Jul 28 2005, 07:54 PM So, in summary, 1st el Alamein was not "the" el Alamein, but it was an important battle and it is good to be able to discuss it. [post=36994]Quoted post[/post] Thanks for that Angie, I did know that there were 3 battles however the dates were a bit off. As you stated, three major battles occurred around El Alamein between July and November 1942, and, as you stated, were the turning points of the war in North Africa. The Australian 9th Division, led by Lieutenant General Leslie Morshead, who denied Rommel Tobruk, calling his "Blitzgreig" "a highly overated tactical manoeuvre" played a key role in two of these battles, enhancing the reputation earned defending Tobruk against Rommel for nine months during 1941. View attachment 912 Morshead is to the right of Monty facing the camera The struggle for North Africa saw the pendulum swing sharply in favour of the Axis from January 1942. As you rightly stated, the British Eighth Army was then commanded by General Claude Auchinleck. This army comprised British, Australian, New Zealand, South African, and Indian troops. By the end of June, Rommel had forced the Allies back deep into Egypt, and the capture of Cairo and the Suez Canal seemed a very real possibility as it did in 1941. The Allies pinned all their hopes on their new defensive position near the tiny railway stop of El Alamein. Here, the battlefield narrowed between the coast and the impassable Qattara Depression. Rommel, wanting to maintain the pressure made another thrust on 1 July, hoping to dislodge Eighth Army from the Alamein position and open the way to Cairo and Suez. The Allies however had regrouped sufficiently to repulse the attack and make some counterattacks of their own. In these first days of July, the fate of the whole campaign hung in the balance. Both sides by now critically weakened and disorganised, missed opportunities for decisive victories. Both now took time over the next few days to reorganise and lick their wounds. View attachment 913 Crusader Tank Aus 9th Div Cav Reg Before dawn on 10 July the Australian 9th Division launched an attack on the northern flank and succeeded in taking the important high ground around Tel el Eisa. This caught Rommel off guard as he had concentrated his forces for his own offensive in the south. The Australians spent the next few days fighting off heavy counterattacks as Rommel redirected much of his forces against them. The Aussie 9th Division infantry owed much to Australian, British and South African artillery, as well as the Desert Air Force (DAF), in repelling these counterattacks. Australians were also present in the DAF, flying with of Nos. 3 and 450 Squadrons, RAAF. View attachment 914 2/8th Aust Field Reg Fighting then spread to other parts of the front and continued for most of July. By the end of the month, both sides had fought each other to a standstill. On the 27th, one Australian Battalion, the 2/28th, was virtually wiped out when they were surrounded by German tanks and help failed to arrive in time. (They had taken the objective and could not hold it). The battalion lost 65 men dead and 490 captured, in an attack on a place called Ruin Ridge. When the fighting died down at the end of July, Eighth army now held the important high ground near the coast. This provided them with good observation of the enemy and an excellent position from which to launch further offensives. From August until the end of October, the Allied army grew steadily in strength with the arrival of more troops and equipment. The Axis forces, on the other hand, were weakening, with their supply lines strangled by Allied air and naval attacks. A change in command of the Eighth Army occurred in mid-August when Auchinleck was replaced by “Monty”. He set about making positive changes in the Eighth Army, training it and preparing it for the battles to come. On the last day of August Rommel launched another offensive. In this last and desperate attempt to oust the Allies from the Alamein line, German and Italian armoured forces massed in the southern sector and made a sweeping hook that drove the Allies back to the Alam el Halfa Ridge. The Allied strength, however, soon proved itself as they pushed the Axis forces back over the next few days. In addition, they faced incessant Allied bombing from the DAF, an acute shortage of petrol for their tanks, and a diversionary raid by Australians in the north. After this battle, Rommel went on the defensive, and prepared for the Allied offensive he knew would soon come. View attachment 915 Troop positions at Elamein. On the night of 23 October 1942, a massive artillery barrage heralded the great Allied offensive that was forever to be known as "El Alamein". The infantry successfully captured most of their objectives; however, the tanks were unable to follow through and continue the thrust. With the Axis forces stubbornly holding their lines intact, Montgomery worried that his offensive was becoming bogged down. Changing tactics from the drive westwards, he ordered the Australians of 9th Division to switch their attack northward. What followed was a week of extremely fierce fighting, with the Australians grinding their way forward over well-defended enemy positions. As had happened in July, their gains so worried Rommel that he again diverted his strongest units to stop them. Places such as Thompson’s Post, the Fig Orchard, the Blockhouse and the Saucer became an inferno of fire and steel. With Rommel’s attention firmly on the Australians in the north, naturally this left his line weakened further south, and on 2 November the British tanks struck a decisive blow there. The Panzerarmee had suffered crippling losses and Rommel was forced to order a general withdrawal, or face total annihilation. His army now began a headlong retreat that would soon see them ejected from Africa altogether. Between July and November 1942, the Australian 9th Division suffered almost 6,000 casualties. Although the price was fearfully high, they had without doubt played a crucial role in ensuring an Allied victory in North Africa
Originally posted by angie999@Jul 30 2005, 05:45 AM In my opinion, the Australian 9th Division was among the best fielded by any army in the war. [post=37071]Quoted post[/post] Yes, but 6th Australian was the first to defeat the Italians, Germans, and Japanese. 2nd New Zealand was a great outfit, too. So were 101st and 82nd Airborne, and US 3rd Infantry. But I won't argue with you...9th Australian was an outstanding division. I'd make a "Hall of Fame" of great WW2 divisions.
Originally posted by Kiwiwriter@Aug 1 2005, 03:54 PM Yes, but [post=37136]Quoted post[/post] I am not a "league table" sort of person and I could never arrive at an opinion about the best, which is why I only said "among". I agree that all your choices were also "among" the best.
Originally posted by angie999+Aug 1 2005, 01:13 PM-->(angie999 @ Aug 1 2005, 01:13 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-Kiwiwriter@Aug 1 2005, 03:54 PM Yes, but [post=37136]Quoted post[/post] I am not a "league table" sort of person and I could never arrive at an opinion about the best, which is why I only said "among". I agree that all your choices were also "among" the best. [post=37142]Quoted post[/post] [/b] Missed the word "among." My apologies for that. Long day.
