Not your ordinary search

Discussion in 'War Cemeteries & War Memorial Research' started by geoff501, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. Buteman

    Buteman 336/102 LAA Regiment (7 Lincolns), RA

    I'm trying to identify all the Canloan Officer casualties. Other than trawling all the cemeteries lists, is that possible. Their Serial numbers are all
    CDN/--- and there are I believe 128 of them.

    Hold that thought. I found a link Owen put in one of his threads abount the Canloans. Lists all who served and who were killed. I have 97 names already, so nearly cracked it.
     
  2. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    I'm trying to identify all the Canloan Officer casualties. Other than trawling all the cemeteries lists, is that possible. Their Serial numbers are all
    CDN/--- and there are I believe 128 of them.

    Hold that thought. I found a link Owen put in one of his threads abount the Canloans. Lists all who served and who were killed. I have 97 names already, so nearly cracked it.

    Geoff's Search Engine (patent pending), gives 127 using CDN in the service number field. Does this help? Have I missed one?
     
    fritzelblitz likes this.
  3. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    In this thread, post #36

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/war-cemeteries-war-memorial-research/30741-australian-raaf-lads-lie-alone-french-cemeteries-4.html#post349225

    I found 67 cemeteries that contained exactly one RAAF burial and no other CWGC burials - with almost 100% success.

    Can anyone suggest an out of the ordinary search for me to do? If I like the idea and it's reasonably possible, I might have a go.

    Some searches will not be considered:

    The oldest casualty
    The youngest casualty
    The first casualty
    The last casualty
    The median casualty (well someone may want to know)

    Don't make it too hard though and if the snow melts, I may withdraw the offer. Nothing else to do except decorate the spare bedroom (started last week), feed the birds, make bread, drink beer, walk through the woods to the shop (it's uphill both directions !)

    cheers,

    geoff

    ps please feed the birds.

    BUMP.

    Any more requests?
     
  4. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Geoff
    Not so much a search as a query
    I know your engine will now do plots in a cemetery but is there any way to generate a cemetery report like those on cwgc - but instead of alpha order have numerical list of grave refs?
    Also complicated by overabundant use of Roman numerals, I suppose
    There are no search facilities on offer at the moment to locate graves of those Known unto God, or are there??

    See
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/war-cemeteries-war-memorial-research/33592-cwgc-cemetery-spreadsheets.html
     
  5. macrusk

    macrusk Proud Daughter

    I wish I'd found your search engine link prior to our Canadian Battlefields Tour Apr/May 2010, as I would have had the names of all the men of the Royal Canadian Artillery who were killed at Dieppe. At the time, I only had those of most of the 3LAA (my Dad's regiment) who were killed on August 19, 1942. I would have liked to honour the others, as very few people seem to know they were even there. Even at the Dieppe memorial above Blue Beach does not acknowledge they were there.

    Great job.
     
  6. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Geoff
    Not so much a search as a query
    I know your engine will now do plots in a cemetery but is there any way to generate a cemetery report like those on cwgc - but instead of alpha order have numerical list of grave refs?
    Also complicated by overabundant use of Roman numerals, I suppose


    This would be possible, in a similar form to the Guards plots I did for you. Worth a try perhaps, to see how it works.
    Roman numerals are not really a problem, but different schemes may be. My on-line search only works with plot/row/grave type data - which is the most common but there are other schemes.

    There are no search facilities on offer at the moment to locate graves of those Known unto God, or are there??

    See
    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/war-cemeteries-war-memorial-research/33592-cwgc-cemetery-spreadsheets.html
    Only row by row by doing a row search for all nationalities, and compare to the cemetery plan, what's missing is probably unknown burials.
    Unfortunately, unknowns or partially unknowns are not in any database we have access to. I hope they are in one somewhere, in case they get vandalized or weathered and not noticed.
     
  7. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    I wish I'd found your search engine link prior to our Canadian Battlefields Tour Apr/May 2010, as I would have had the names of all the men of the Royal Canadian Artillery who were killed at Dieppe. At the time, I only had those of most of the 3LAA (my Dad's regiment) who were killed on August 19, 1942. I would have liked to honour the others, as very few people seem to know they were even there. Even at the Dieppe memorial above Blue Beach does not acknowledge they were there.

    Great job.

    It's been around since late 2007, is well publicized on here but not elsewhere. Sorry you missed it. I hope there is a 'next time' for you.
     
  8. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    This would be possible, in a similar form to the Guards plots I did for you. Worth a try perhaps, to see how it works.
    Roman numerals are not really a problem, but different schemes may be. My on-line search only works with plot/row/grave type data - which is the most common but there are other schemes.

    Only row by row by doing a row search for all nationalities, and compare to the cemetery plan, what's missing is probably unknown burials.
    Unfortunately, unknowns or partially unknowns are not in any database we have access to. I hope they are in one somewhere, in case they get vandalized or weathered and not noticed.

    Geoff,
    Rather than search row by row, I copied the Cemetery Reports, placed them into a spreadsheet and then moved & sorted them into numerical order by plot, row, number. It brought up a few discrepancies, likely more scanning errors, with some refs clearly being incorrect, but it's very time consuming.

    Some refs. start with Spec Mem. or Coll. grave etc. which might also complicate.

    However comparing the results with the cemetery plan - ie the range of nos given in the plan - did help to identify those grave nos. which could be at least said were NOT noted on the report. Comparing the blanks against the number of unidentified graves mention in Historical Information seems to tally up as well.

    I see no other way, apart from visiting the cemetery, in trying to find possible Unknown grave locations.

    It's definitely an oversight in the CWGC search engine in that, we all know that some headstones, although having no name, do occasionally record a unit / date of death. Can't understand why the CWGC don't at least include these in the Cemetery Report.
     
  9. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Geoff,
    Rather than search row by row, I copied the Cemetery Reports, placed them into a spreadsheet and then moved & sorted them into numerical order by plot, row, number. It brought up a few discrepancies, likely more scanning errors, with some refs clearly being incorrect, but it's very time consuming.


    It sort of works quite well, exporting my data to a CSV file and then importing into Excel. Excel sorts on Plot, then Row but leaves Grave unsorted. Did you find a neat way to do this, or is it a manual process? (I'm a complete idiot with Excel). I could probably do the sorting before I create the CSV file, since I'm probably unable to do any Excel macros.

    There are some errors, sometimes odd or wrong characters in the Grave field and a few times a duplicate grave number for one or more records.
     
  10. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Geoff, I did everything manually within excel. Couldn't find a way to sort Roman numerals. Also idiot with Excel.

    ALIAS files within reports do not contain Grave refs - was another complication.
     
    fritzelblitz likes this.
  11. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Geoff, I did everything manually within excel. Couldn't find a way to sort Roman numerals.

    It does work, sorts on Romans then Rows. But they need re-ordering on grave number. I can probably fix that bit

    ALIAS files within reports do not contain Grave refs - was another complication.
    One option is to ignore Alias records in the export and add in the 'Served as' field into a column.

    Would help if there was better cross referencing in their data. You have to search for the True name if you find an Alias. I wonder if this will be in their new system - probably not.
     
  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    It's been around since late 2007, is well publicized on here but not elsewhere. Sorry you missed it. I hope there is a 'next time' for you.

    macrusk missed it because she spends to much time on ww2f & not here when this is the far superior forum.
    ;)
     
  13. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    D,

    If I export the Plot, Row and Grave to separate columns, then Excel sort on the 3 columns in succession it works fine. Simples! Should work for any numbering scheme also!
     
  14. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    macrusk missed it because she spends to much time on ww2f & not here when this is the far superior forum.
    ;)

    That explains it, and you're right.
    Must fire my PR manager though, he's not doing a good job.:lol:
     
  15. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    D,

    If I export the Plot, Row and Grave to separate columns, then Excel sort on the 3 columns in succession it works fine. Simples! Should work for any numbering scheme also!


    Works a treat, just tried it on Ecoivres. Around 1700+ records. All sorted OK. There were 9 with dots missing in the reference, one with row and grave but plot missing and 2 special memorials. The errors should be easy to detect. Took about 5-10 minutes to get into a spreadsheet.
     
    dbf likes this.
  16. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    D,

    If I export the Plot, Row and Grave to separate columns, then Excel sort on the 3 columns in succession it works fine. Simples! Should work for any numbering scheme also!


    Aahh - simples! - exactly why I didn't think of it of course.

    Great news!! So happy to hear that, thank you for trying it out.

    Some dots missing and I bet some spaces - and some roman 'I' recorded as '1'

    One option is to ignore Alias records in the export and add in the 'Served as' field into a column.

    Would help if there was better cross referencing in their data. You have to search for the True name if you find an Alias. I wonder if this will be in their new system - probably not.

    I kept them as double entries and c&p'd the missing details - IIRC was the grave ref and the unit detail; not sure about Regtl no, but think that's in both records...?

    I won't take a bet on that if you don't mind. I'd be surprised if it's even occurred to them. When completing the one survey of theirs I bothered with, I forgot to ask about Unknowns and if they'd make any details such as grave ref / whatever 'extra' that may be recorded on the headstone available (rank/unit/date).
     
  17. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Odd thought.
    Is it possible to easily list days for the WW2 CWGC period when nobody is listed as killed?
    (Got a feeling we might have had a thread on it, but searching proved fruitless.)
     
  18. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Odd thought.
    Is it possible to easily list days for the WW2 CWGC period when nobody is listed as killed?
    (Got a feeling we might have had a thread on it, but searching proved fruitless.)

    I can check the data I used for this plot:

    http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/prewar/32994-ww1-highest-single-days-deaths-3.html#post368823

    But I don't think there are any empty columns in it. Looks quite low a short while before Dunkirk. The x-axis is a bit squashed so columns may have overlapped.
     
  19. klambie

    klambie Senior Member

    Geoff,

    Don't need any assistance, but your post prompted me to generate a list of original RRRs who were casualties with other units and add them to my site. Turned up several that the unit did not record as such, and details were simple to extract from your tool. Thanks.
     
  20. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Geoff,

    As a consequence of this thread, I have tried various searches for casualties from the 1st Hyderabad Infantry, Indian States Forces and found none, which seems a little unlikely. Am I being a bit thick, or were there really no fatalities?

    Thanks,

    Andrew
     

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