Northumberland Hussars - Ellis Race 1134883

Can anyone tell me what artillery piece I'm sitting on as I don't have a clue. It is outside the Hartenstein Hotel in Arnhem.

Also attached is a headstone picture of a Northumber Hussar casualty buried at Arnhem Osterbeek. F Astle, South African died October 1944.

Robert

 

According to their website:
Hartenstein Hotel Museum Arnhem
its a 17 pounder. Although its clearly the same gun, the "wiggly bit of metal" on top isn't on the photo on their website!

 

Sadly Ellis passed away before we could try and put together his memoirs, we did sit down and chat one afternoon pen and pad in head, but not much came out of it, he seemed completely bemused that anyone would be remotely interested in his war stories! This is about all we could get out of him that day:

He mentioned D-Day and being with the 69th Brigade, Durham Light Infantry and the Green Howards, landing at H-hour +1, in his words “we had a field day!” The Hobart’s funnies also seemed to be the cause of much amusement that day. He fell ill a few days later with a high fever which he claimed was malaria, complaining that he had to have his blankets changed 3 times a day. He went on to say they went from Bayeux to Caen but didn’t have enough men to take Caen.

He didn’t seem to have much luck in the medical department, on his 21st birthday (2nd September 1942) he went swimming in the Red Sea with his pals and ended up with a black after larking about with his pals! On top of that he also contracted diphtheria in Egypt.

In Market Garden, he recalls his bren carrier skidding and spinning on the cobles in Nijmegen(?), so I guess they weren’t using the 17 pounders there. He also commented that he got through 3 bren carrier drivers as they all kept getting killed. At Arnhem, he complained an officer put them in a gun position in front of the infantry. But they all pulled back at night, to a position facing through a wood. The “next day, they blew us out of the bloody field!!” He lost everything at Arnhem and recalls having only what he was stood in, a greatcoat and a sten gun.

After the war no idea of the chronology, but it was all back to Antwerp to go back to England before moving onto the far east Far East. From where I don’t know but they were sent back to Germany as a Sergeant, but didn’t like it, handed his stripes back in! Went out as a Class B. At some point they also went to South Africa to replace battery.

Sadly that’s the extent of his personal memories, despite spending many an afternoon at family gatherings in a corner with him reciting his tales. I guess if we’d drank less Black Sheep we might have a clearer picture!

There is another family rumour/myth that Ellis was at Belsen when it was liberated but I can’t find anything one the net to support this…

Thanks for all your great posts so far!

Paul

 

Paul

You are quite right about the 69th Brigade, DLI and Green Howards.
Attached are two pages about A Battery on D-Day and also a sheet showing the composition of the 50th (Northumbrian) Division on D-Day.

Couldn't find anything about being in Belsen. They ended up near Hamburg and Regimental HQ and A Battery had to take charge of 30,000 prisoners at a place called Lauenburg at the end of April.

You will note that the 25th LAA Regiment to which 274 Battery were reassigned earlier in the war is also in the same Division.

Thanks for the info about the 17 Pounder. The photo is from 2005.

Robert

 

What's the process for obtaining copies of regimental war diaries? I assume they are in the NA, not sure as the museum in Newcastle has copies (nearer for me).

Paul

 

Paul

Definitely the National Archives for the war diaries, but you have to go in person. Tried to search their database for war diary references, but no luck. I find that the search engine there is rather quirky. Easier to telephone as their people know the system inside out.

Try calling the NH Museum. They do have an archive collection of documents, so you might get lucky.

Robert.

 

Paul

Definitely the National Archives for the war diaries, but you have to go in person. Tried to search their database for war diary references, but no luck. I find that the search engine there is rather quirky. Easier to telephone as their people know the system inside out.

Try calling the NH Museum. They do have an archive collection of documents, so you might get lucky.

Robert.


Hi Robert,
keep the search simple. Just put in 102 and the relevent years. You will find the War Diaries in WO166.

Brian

 

Just for fun...
My artist's impression, is this what the BD would have looked like early ETO (before joining the 15th Scottish)??

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=71&pictureid=584

Paul

 

Owen - Paul is correct although the dark blue is on the left and the light blue is on the right. Once again it is this arrangement with the War Office that they could use these colours on everything that required markings to signify that they were first & foremost Northumberland Hussars and secondly Royal Artillery.

R

 

Owen -
your posting # 21 - refers to the "pheasant" being a 17 pounder being mouted on tha 6 pounder carriage at Medinine -n March '43 - is quite right - but there is more to it than just that flat statement.

Four 17 pounders were landed at Algiers with the Torch landings - these were the first off the production line in the UK and they did not have a carriage to suit them at that time and so they were bodged onto the 6 pounders - while no one had seen this gun before - there was a fair bit of trials to be done...

At about the same time Monty had some Ultra that after Kasserine, Rommel was about to give Monty a bloody nose - so Monty scraped up every gun he could lay his hands on and thus the 4 x 17 pounders made their way via the back roads through the Atlas mountains to Medenine where they were then given the code name of "pheasant" - after the battle - they were spirited away back to the UK and a whole battery of them turned up with a Canadian regiment for the Invasion of Sicily in July - we had a demonstration of their power in Italy but alas the whole production was geared for D day and onwards - we never saw many of them until the end
Cheers

 

This is where I’m struggling at the moment… I understand that NH kept their own ‘colours’ as also verified here:

RA 1939-45 102 A/Tk Rgt

See image below from the book “D-Day to VE-Day, The British Soldier, Vol 1” by Jean Bouchery.

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=71&pictureid=585

There’s pages in the book about support arms insignia, then at the end of the section there’s this little box on patches which doesn’t seem to fit with everything else and as you’ll see there is a Regimental Flash for NH. This leaves me confidence that the 2-blue flash is correct, but according to that diagram, they do not wear the Shoulder title or Formation badge?!

I don’t think I’ll believe anything until I see either an original uniform or a period photo!

Cheers, Paul

 

I think (according to the aforementioned book) the Regimental Flashes are uni-directional, if that's the right word, i.e. in the case of NH the pale blue should always "face the front" as all the images in this book are of the wearer's left sleeve.
Paul

PS - Couldn't resist making an avatar!

 

Paul

There is a very small photo in the book I've got. I tried to scan it but the quality is too bad to upload. It is from Normandy in June '44 and you can see the TT insignia of the 50th Division with the NH flash underneath. Unfortunately the way the soldier is standing, the material of the jacket obscures what is above the TT badge.

Like the avatar. Can you change the green background on top to light blue and then it will be spot on? Shame you can't add the motto to signify what the naval flag signal on the avatar means. "Engage the enemy more closely"

Robert

 

Paul

I've just spoken to a lady at the Northumberland Hussars Museum and she confirmed that on the shoulder, top was the RA badge as shown below. Then the divisional badge. Then the dark blue/light blue flash showing they were NH.

Just another bit of info. When they joined 15th Scottish in late '44, the 15th Scottish CO wanted them to wear the Tam o Shanter style beret, which they refused to do outright. This was because the Northumbrians were the historical enemy of the Scots. They understood and left them to wear their original berets.

Robert.

PS - They don't hold copies of the war diary, so National Archives is your only bet.

 

Owen

I sure Paul will be thrilled.

Have just got off the phone from the National Archives and they can't find any war diary references from their database. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks - Robert.

 

Can you change the green background on top to light blue and then it will be spot on?

Done!

I got the original colours off the MoD website:
D (Northumberland Hussars) Sqn

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