Non Commemorated War Dead of WW2

Discussion in 'Non-Commemorated War Dead' started by chrisharley9, Jun 2, 2008.

  1. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Hello everyone

    Those that know me from the Great War Forum will know that I have spent much time researching the non commemorated war dead of that conflict. Im also researching those from the Second World War & if anyone knows of any please do let me know as Im more than happy to help out with advice etc - I already have 2 RAMC officers from this conflict on my books to submit

    We can use this thread to exchange info etc & also too gauge the size of the problem which will be nowhere as large as the Great War

    All The Best

    Chris
     
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  2. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Those who members of the GWF will know that there is ill feeling towards the discussion of WW2 Non Commemorateds on that forum - see my post above. I can advise & help anyone who has a possible case to submit to the CWGC - as those who know me will confirm I have had a lot of successes from the Great War
     
  3. Neil Clark

    Neil Clark Junior Member

    I'm busted to a bloomin Junior Private again! What a downfall from Lt Col in the first war! Must be summit to do with my old age now in 1939.

    Awaiting my field courts martial Corp Harley :lol:
     
  4. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Hi Chris and welcome Neil.

    You do some wonderful work Chris.

    I do not have any WW2 however I have one pending for WW1. He was the first person to die in Australia in a military air training accident.

    Eager to get his headstone photo I found he was not commemorated on the CWGC however he is listed on the Australian Roll of Honour.

    Terry Denham is following it up and we await the result.

    Cheers

    Geoff
     
  5. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Gentlemen

    Nice to see you all here

    As you all know I have submitted civilian casualties from an air crash at Canberra in 1940 - which we are still awaiting confirmation on

    Chris
     
  6. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER

    Gentlemen

    Nice to see you all here

    As you all know I have submitted civilian casualties from an air crash at Canberra in 1940 - which we are still awaiting confirmation on

    Chris

    Many important people involved in that one.

    Memorial Cairn for Canberra Military Crash 1940.jpg

    Fact sheets - National Archives of Australia

    Canberra air disaster, 1940 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Brigadier Geoffrey Austin Street, Minister for the Army and Repatriation. A World War I veteran who had been awarded the Military Cross, Street entered Federal Parliament in 1934 and became Minister for Defence in 1938. With the onset of World War II, Street's portfolio was split, and he became Minister for the Army. He gained the Repatriation portfolio in 1940.
    James Valentine Fairbairn, Minister for Air and Civil Aviation. A pastoralist and accomplished aviator who served with the Royal Flying Corps during WW I, Fairbairn was elected to Federal Parliament in 1933 and became Minister for Civil Aviation and Vice-President of the Executive Council in 1939. He was appointed Minister for Air at the onset of WW II, and regained the Civil Aviation portfolio in 1940.
    Sir Henry Somer Gullett, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Minister in charge of Scientific and Industrial Research. A journalist until his enlistment in 1916, Henry Gullett became Australia's official war correspondent for the AIF in Palestine in 1918. He was elected to Parliament in 1925, becoming Deputy Leader of the Opposition from 1929 to 1930, Minister for Trade and Customs from 1928 to 1929 and 1932 to 1933, Minister without portfolio from 1934 to 1937, Minister for External Affairs and Information from 1939 to 1940, and was appointed Vice President of the Executive Council in March 1940.
    General Sir Cyril Brudenell Bingham White, Chief of the General Staff. With a background of service with Australian forces in South Africa in 1902–03, White served as Chief of Staff to Generals Bridges and Birdwood during WW I. He became Chief of the General Staff in 1920 and, in 1923, was appointed the first chairman of the Public Service Board. White returned to the Army as Chief of the General Staff in 1940.
    Lieutenant Colonel Francis Thornthwaite, Staff Officer to General White. An officer in the Australian Army from 1910, Thornthwaite was awarded the Distinguished Service Order and Military Cross for his service during WW I. He was serving as Army Liaison Officer on the General Staff at the time of his death.
    Richard Edwin Elford. Elford, who had a good knowledge of aeronautics, was Private Secretary to Mr Fairbairn.
    RAAF crew:
    <dl><dd>Flight Lieutenant Robert Edward Hitchcock</dd><dd>Pilot Officer Richard Frederick Wiesener</dd><dd>Corporal John Frederick Palmer</dd><dd>Aircraftman Charles Joseph Crosdale</dd></dl>
     
  7. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Spidge

    thanks for that

    Chris
     
  8. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Those who members of the GWF will know that there is ill feeling towards the discussion of WW2 Non Commemorateds on that forum - see my post above. I can advise & help anyone who has a possible case to submit to the CWGC - as those who know me will confirm I have had a lot of successes from the Great War

    Chris,
    Sorry that this attitude persists on GWF, given that the work involved and the intentions are the same ... whether WW1 or WW2.

    Best of luck with it all,
    Diane
     
  9. Gerard

    Gerard Seelow/Prora

    Lads, welcome to our humble abode and best of luck with your work. :)
     
  10. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Any project like this is welcome here chaps. We can only support any and all such work, regardless of whatever conflict an un-commemorated man fell in.
    They all deserve to have their sacrifices remembered.

    More power to you

    Question time;
    It seems there are many less for WW2, and I've also read that the research is more problematic?
    Is this mainly down to better record keeping & grave registration in the first instance? and perhaps scarcity of needed info in the second?

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
  11. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Thank you for your comments - sorry I have been away from this forum for so long

    In answer to Adam's questions : -

    The scale of the problem for WW2 is much smaller than the Great War & research is much harder due to the fact that service records are closed to us at the moment

    Better record keeping in the second conflict which was enabled by the steep learning
    curve from the Great War so enabling everyone involved to know exactly what was required of them

    I have already found 2 RAMC officers both of whom were post discharge deaths from war causes

    I have found the grave of a VAD named on the Brookwood memorial

    The largest problem we are going to have with WW2 is non commemorated civilians - I already have cases on hand of about a dozen civilians who died in Japanese internment camps

    Chris
     
  12. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    For WW1 we also have the 1901 census. I reckon most of the WW1 non-comms will be home deaths. (and much harder to research than those missing in GRO, overseas). They are never all going to be found. But if you find your man in 1901, you have his age, which helps a lot when searching the death indices. Death certificates are essential, unless you have a service record which records death.
     
  13. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Hello Geoff

    as Geoff points out most of the WW1 non comms will be home deaths in service & home deaths post discharge from war causes - the first category easy to prove as you just need a death certificate that shows their in service status (had a few of these myself - with plenty more on the books). The second category not so easy as you need proof that they died of cause aggravated or caused by military service

    The MOD Army are pretty good at adjudicating their cases doing effienctly & with little fusss - MOD Navy have given all of this work to the Naval Historical Branch who frankly are pants at making correct decisions having even rejected in service deaths. I have no experience of dealing with the RAF

    Chris
     
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  14. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Geoff

    Im trying to look Australian Coast Watchers from WW2 on your engine - where do I look with regard to service please

    Chris
     
  15. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Also one for the owners of this forum - how would you feel about a sub forum devoted to the non commemorated casualties of WW2 - service & civilian

    Chris
     
  16. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    No problem whatsoever with that as far as I can see Chris, I'm sure I can squeeze you into the 'Research' section and add a link from the front page as we did with Geoff and his search engine.
    Again, it seems like such a valid and worthwhile subject.

    I'll have a little chat with the Mods as I'm never too keen on acting on changes to the forum lists without consulting with the chaps, and get back to you.
    Can't see there being any objections.

    Cheers,
    Adam.
     
  17. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Adam

    you are very kind - look forward to developments

    Chris
     
  18. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Geoff

    Im trying to look Australian Coast Watchers from WW2 on your engine - where do I look with regard to service please

    Chris

    Chris,

    The drop down list in the engine is all the units I could find. I think probably I have all of them. Would it come under Australian Coastguard ?

    geoff
     
  19. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Geoff

    only 2 listed under Aus Coastguard - I have an authority (Spidge) that shows 22 dead coastwatchers - will have to have a chat with him later

    Chris
     
  20. Paul Reed

    Paul Reed Ubique MOD

    Good to see you all here, and I hope members can help/assist with any projects that are on-going.

    Out of interest - for me and probably all here - what is the criteria for a name being accepted?
     
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