Need surname confirmation on S/L Victor Roberton Paterson in the CWGC database.

This is not a trivial request as I am trying to ensure that all data I place in my spreadsheet and on this forum is correct.

I came across this today and feel the name and the NOK details "seem" to be incorrect however I would like some advice from the learned forum.

This Squadron Leader's name seems to be a hyphenated name as he, his father, mother and spouse also carry the "second" name.

The Sqd/L's initials are listed as V.R. Paterson on the NAA, but seemingly could/should be V. Roberton Paterson.

Does anybody know of this name, or able to bring this family up on Ancestry or similar from the details below?



In Memory of
Squadron Leader VICTOR ROBERTON PATERSON
D F C

37478, 101 Sqdn., Royal Air Force
who died age 26
on 21 September 1942
Son of Victor Roberton Paterson and Eileen Winnifred Roberton Paterson; husband of Jane Roberton Paterson, of Galashiels. Selkirkshire. Allied.
Remembered with honour
AABENRAA CEMETERY


Cheers

Geoff

 

Not a firm convention but Scottish family names (some frown upon 'double barrel' as an oddity - belonging to two clans) do not usually hyphenate. In fact this has happened to my late uncle. Serjeant Robert, Easton Duthie 2nd Bn Gordon Highlanders is listed as RE Duthie on the monument at Kanchanaburi war cemetery. Yet it plainly states in records son of Alexander and Elizabeth Easton Duthie. The family accepted it and still do. I know of one officer who went ballistic when a book was published and his name (a name going back into the depths of time in the regiment) was published with a hyphen.

 

This is not a trivial request as I am trying to ensure that all data I place in my spreadsheet and on this forum is correct.

I came across this today and feel the name and the NOK details "seem" to be incorrect however I would like some advice from the learned forum.

This Squadron Leader's name seems to be a hyphenated name as he, his father, mother and spouse also carry the "second" name.

The Sqd/L's initials are listed as V.R. Paterson on the NAA, but seemingly could/should be V. Roberton Paterson.

Does anybody know of this name, or able to bring this family up on Ancestry or similar from the details below?



In Memory of
Squadron Leader VICTOR ROBERTON PATERSON
D F C

37478, 101 Sqdn., Royal Air Force
who died age 26
on 21 September 1942
Son of Victor Roberton Paterson and Eileen Winnifred Roberton Paterson; husband of Jane Roberton Paterson, of Galashiels. Selkirkshire. Allied.
Remembered with honour
AABENRAA CEMETERY


Cheers

Geoff


I see your dilema Geoff, not least of which is his headstone Victor Roberton Paterson.


There seems to be many links to the family on the net. Presumably there will still be some in the domicile area. Have you access to electorol rolls or the BT directory.

I can tell you that all LG entries do not hyphen the name & is "as is"

simon

 

Not a firm convention but Scottish family names (some frown upon 'double barrel' as an oddity - belonging to two clans) do not usually hyphenate. In fact this has happened to my late uncle. Serjeant Robert, Easton Duthie 2nd Bn Gordon Highlanders is listed as RE Duthie on the monument at Kanchanaburi war cemetery. Yet it plainly states in records son of Alexander and Elizabeth Easton Duthie. The family accepted it and still do. I know of one officer who went ballistic when a book was published and his name (a name going back into the depths of time in the regiment) was published with a hyphen.


I actually suffer the same fate & do not hyphenate & have always refered to the 1st surname as an initial.

Regards

Simon

 

Not a firm convention but Scottish family names (some frown upon 'double barrel' as an oddity - belonging to two clans) do not usually hyphenate. In fact this has happened to my late uncle. Serjeant Robert, Easton Duthie 2nd Bn Gordon Highlanders is listed as RE Duthie on the monument at Kanchanaburi war cemetery. Yet it plainly states in records son of Alexander and Elizabeth Easton Duthie. The family accepted it and still do. I know of one officer who went ballistic when a book was published and his name (a name going back into the depths of time in the regiment) was published with a hyphen.

Interesting Wills. Did not know about that convention. It seemed to me to be a truly double barrel surname as the mother and spouse carried it.

Having said that, your opinion would be that the "surname" is "Roberton Paterson"!

Assam posted the link I saw previously which states V.R. Paterson.

Cheers

Geoff

 

I see your dilema Geoff, not least of which is his headstone Victor Roberton Paterson.


There seems to be many links to the family on the net. Presumably there will still be some in the domicile area. Have you access to electorol rolls or the BT directory.

I can tell you that all LG entries do not hyphen the name & is "as is"

simon

I will update with a note.

Maybe someone will come along with a family history.

Cheers

Geoff

 

Roberton listed as a Scottish name origin Lanark. Paterson listed as Irish/Scottish and of course is a clan. I also have an old friend who has a middle name that was his mothers family name! Complex business! Sometimes feel there was and maybe is an attempt at being different - today we have the Trixy whatsit Jagger!

 

I have two pending at the moment with CWG's!

(1)



Please be advised of a few anomalies in the details of RAF Sgt A.F. Heffernan who details are included in the final crew list below. I have made the assumption that his correct name is Heffernan but please advise correct information when your inquiry is complete.

On the Ravenna records, CWGC has his name as Heffernan, not Hefferman, his Father as Herffernan, his mother as Heffernan and the Headstone as Hefferman.

A photo of the Collective headstones are attached from Ravenna which is high-res and can be enlarged to show the name on the headstone of "Hefferman".

[FONT=&quot]RAAF FATALITIES IN SECOND WORLD WAR AMONG
RAAF PERSONNEL SERVING ON ATTACHMENT
IN ROYAL AIR FORCE SQUADRONS AND SUPPORT UNITS

Source:

AWM 237 (65) NAA : A9300 Barcode 4560228 Commonwealth War Graves records
W R Chorley : RAF Bomber Command Losses of the Second World War, Page 249,
Volume 1942.
Aircraft Type: Lancaster
Serial number: W 4251
Radio call sign: DX -
Unit: ATTD 57 SQN RAF

Summary:

Lancaster W4251 took off from RAF Scampton at hours 1233 hours on 24tth October
1942 detailed to bomb Milan, Italy. Nothing was heard from the aircraft after take off and
it failed to return to base.

Crew:

RAF FO Miles, J T N Captain (Pilot)
RAAF 14065 Sgt G G Fraser, (Flight Engineer)
RCAF FO Hamilton, W C (Observer)
RAF Sgt J G Taylor, (Air Bomber)
RAF Sgt H B Smith, (Wireless Air Gunner)
RAF Sgt A F Heffernan, (Mid Upper Gunner)
RAF Sgt W J Wakelin, (Rear Gunner)

All the crew were killed and they are buried in the Ravenna War Cemetery, Italy. The
War Cemetery lies on a communal road 1km south of the SS16 from Ravenna to Ferrara
near the village of Piangipane in the Communal and Province of Ravenna. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In Memory of
Flying Officer JOHN THOMAS NORIE MILES

116729, 57 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
who died age 21
on 24 October 1942
Son of Lieut John Miles, R. N., and Frances Lottie Miles, of Hayling Island, Hampshire. Leverhulme Scholarship, Royal Instute of British Architects, 1937. His brother, David William Norie Miles, also died on service.
Remembered with honour
RAVENNA WAR CEMETERY[/FONT][FONT=&quot]


In Memory of
Sergeant GILBERT GORDON FRASER

14065, Royal Australian Air Force
who died age 32
on 24 October 1942
Son of Edward and Jessie Fraser; husband of Annie Isabella Geddes Fraser, of Gladesville, New South Wales, Australia.
Remembered with honour
RAVENNA WAR CEMETERY


In Memory of
Flying Officer WILLIAM CALDWELL HAMILTON

J/10176, 57 (R.A.F.) Sqdn, Royal Canadian Air Force
who died age 33
on 24 October 1942

Remembered with honour
RAVENNA WAR CEMETERY


In Memory of
Sergeant JOSEPH GORDON TAYLOR

1036176, 57 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
who died age 22
on 24 October 1942
Son of John Hopwood Taylor and Hannah Taylor, of Mold, Flintshire.
Remembered with honour
RAVENNA WAR CEMETERY


In Memory of
Sergeant HERBERT BLATCH SMITH

798655, 57 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
who died
on 24 October 1942
Of Newfoundland.
Remembered with honour
RAVENNA WAR CEMETERY

In Memory of
Sergeant ARTHUR FRANCIS HEFFERNAN

1033069, 57 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
who died age 32
on 24 October 1942
Son of John James Herffernan and Hannah Heffernan, of Blackley, Manchester.
Remembered with honour
RAVENNA WAR CEMETERY


In Memory of
Sergeant WALTER JOHN WAKELIN

1389383, 57 Sqdn., Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
who died age 34
on 24 October 1942
Son of George and Susan Wakelin; husband of Bertha Elizabeth Wakelin, of Ilford, Essex.
Remembered with honour
RAVENNA WAR CEMETERY[/FONT]



(2)

Re: (RAF) Air Vice Marshal McCLAUGHRY, WILFRED ASHTON (CB) (DSO) (MC) (DFC) (MID***)

The above was Australian born as was his brother (RAF) Air Vice Marshal Edgar James Kingston-McCloughry (CB) (CBE) (DSO) (DFC*)

From: Biography - Edgar James McCloughry - Australian Dictionary of Biography

“Wilfred Ashton McCloughry (1894-1943) and Edgar James McCloughry (1896-1972), airmen, were the first and second sons of James Kingston McCloughry, draper, from Larne, Northern Ireland, and his Australian-born wife Charlotte Rebecca, née Ashton. Wilfred was born on 26 November 1894 at Knightsbridge, Adelaide, and Edgar on 10 September 1896 at Hindmarsh. Wilfred later changed his surname to McClaughry and Edgar became Kingston-McCloughry.”

The Australian Commemorative Roll uses the birth name with an Alias whether or not in fact the name was legally changed.

Commemorative Roll - Wilfred Ashton McCloughry | Australian War Memorial

The Debt of Honour has the name listed as McClaughry which is not in dispute however it also lists the NOK details of the parents as McClaughry.

The NOK details on the CWGC is therefore incorrect.

Son of James and Charlotte R. McClaughry, of Adelaide, South Australia; husband of Angela G. M. McClaughry, of St. John's Wood, London

The parents did not change their surname!

Please advise your completed research on the details above.

 

Announcement from The Times, July 24th 1943:



No hyphen.

I've also traced a reference to what looks like him in The Scotsman online archive, but I don't have a subscription to that. Issue dated February 10th 1941, page 8: article headlined "Awards to Aviators".

As far as the London Gazette is concerned, his surname was Paterson though. The Roberton bit is not capitalized.

 

Announcement from The Times, July 24th 1943:



No hyphen.

I've also traced a reference to what looks like him in The Scotsman online archive, but I don't have a subscription to that. Issue dated February 10th 1941, page 8: article headlined "Awards to Aviators".

As far as the London Gazette is concerned, his surname was Paterson though. The Roberton bit is not capitalized.

Hopefully someone from the family will see this as is often the case on this forum.

What about the UK white pages telephone directory? Do they have any listed?

Having said that I will alter the heading!

Cheers

Geoff

 

Gladesville is not all that far from me (20 mins), if Frasers name appears on the local war memorial, would you like a picture of it?

Regards

Simon

 

Gladesville is not all that far from me (20 mins), if Frasers name appears on the local war memorial, would you like a picture of it?

Regards

Simon

Hi Simon,

If you are going past that would be great. Usually this appears on the Nominal Roll however there is no listing of it on Frasers file. He was born in Aberdeen Scotland so may/may not be listed there.

Cheers

Geoff

 

There is a Roberton-Patterson (hyphenated) here:
Georgia Roberton-paterson - UK address and phone number - 192.com

 

There is a Roberton-Paterson (hyphenated) here:
Georgia Roberton-paterson - UK address and phone number - 192.com

Thank you Peter.

We now have an example hyphenated.

Proves it does occur.

Cheers

Geoff

 

This is not a trivial request as I am trying to ensure that all data I place in my spreadsheet and on this forum is correct.

I came across this today and feel the name and the NOK details "seem" to be incorrect however I would like some advice from the learned forum.

This Squadron Leader's name seems to be a hyphenated name as he, his father, mother and spouse also carry the "second" name.

The Sqd/L's initials are listed as V.R. Paterson on the NAA, but seemingly could/should be V. Roberton Paterson.

Does anybody know of this name, or able to bring this family up on Ancestry or similar from the details below?



In Memory of
Squadron Leader VICTOR ROBERTON PATERSON
D F C

37478, 101 Sqdn., Royal Air Force
who died age 26
on 21 September 1942
Son of Victor Roberton Paterson and Eileen Winnifred Roberton Paterson; husband of Jane Roberton Paterson, of Galashiels. Selkirkshire. Allied.
Remembered with honour
AABENRAA CEMETERY


Cheers

Geoff
Spidge,
I am the last born child of Victor Roberton-Paterson. However, like the ministry I too have dropped the hyphen and call myself Peter Owen Roberton Paterson. I dropped the hyphen sometime in my 40's or 50's, not sure when but my birth certificate has definitely got a hyphen in it. My father's sister is Anne Crawford Roberton Paterson; she too has dropped the hyphen. The hyphen was added by my grandfather, who thought a double barrel would help him in business. The rest of us have lived to regret his vanity.
An interesting little side story; I was born on 13th June 1943 from which we have deduced that my father died not knowing that he had sired another child and, of course, I never knew him.
If you have any further questions then please email me.
Best wishes,
Pete

 

Upon further reading, I see that you have also found reference to my daughter Georgia, whose full name was Georgia Mary Jane Roberton-Paterson. Georgia is now married and called Georgia Davies.

 

Spidge,
I am the last born child of Victor Roberton-Paterson. However, like the ministry I too have dropped the hyphen and call myself Peter Owen Roberton Paterson. I dropped the hyphen sometime in my 40's or 50's, not sure when but my birth certificate has definitely got a hyphen in it. My father's sister is Anne Crawford Roberton Paterson; she too has dropped the hyphen. The hyphen was added by my grandfather, who thought a double barrel would help him in business. The rest of us have lived to regret his vanity.
An interesting little side story; I was born on 13th June 1943 from which we have deduced that my father died not knowing that he had sired another child and, of course, I never knew him.
If you have any further questions then please email me.
Best wishes,
Pete

Hi Peter,

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.

That confirms it so I will drop the hyphen as well. Do not know if you saw the original "In Memoriam" thread or not so here it is! A truly Commonwealth Crew!

On this day there were 47 Commonwealth Air Force Deaths.

RAF 30

RAAF 4

RCAF 12

RNZAF 1

SAAF

WAAF
RAAF FATALITIES IN SECOND WORLD WAR AMONG
RAAF PERSONNEL SERVING ON ATTACHMENT
IN ROYAL AIR FORCE SQUADRONS AND SUPPORT UNITS

406638 Flying Officer BUTCHER, Raymond Edward Norton

Source:

AWM 237 (65) NAA : A705, 163/24/314 Micro Film No 463 OAFH
Commonwealth War Graves records W R Chorley : RAF Bomber Command Losses
of the Second World War, Page 225, Volume 1942 .
Aircraft Type: Wellington
Serial number: X 3815
Radio call sign: SR -
Unit: ATTD101 SQN RAF

Summary:

Wellington X3815 took off from RAF Stradishall on the night of 21/22nd September
1942, detailed to carry out a gardening mining operation. Nothing was heard from the
aircraft after take off and it failed to return to base.

Crew:

RAF Sqn Ldr Roberton Paterson, V DFC Captain (Pilot) †
RCAF PO Mitchell; C H (Observer) POW
RNZAF Sgt G L Otter, (Bomb Aimer) POW
RAF Flt Sgt E J Rowe, (Wireless Air Gunner) †
RAAF 406683 FO Butcher, R E N (Air Gunner) †

The aircraft was attacked by a night fighter at 4000feet before reaching the target area
and crashed. Three of the crew were killed and PO Mitchell and Sgt Otter were POW’s.
Those killed are buried in the Aabenraa Cemetery, Denmark. Aabenraa is a town south
east of Jutland and about 25kms north of the German border.
PO Mitchell later reported “the aircraft was raked from the rear to the front in a sudden
attack by the enemy on the night of 21st September. Butcher’s position in the aircraft
would have made him particularly vulnerable to the enemy fire at the time of the attack.
The plane was washed ashore near Arnum, Denmark.”

In Memory of
Squadron Leader VICTOR ROBERTON PATERSON
D F C
37478, 101 Sqdn., Royal Air Force
who died age 26
on 21 September 1942
Son of Victor Roberton Paterson and Eileen Winnifred Roberton Paterson; husband of Jane Roberton Paterson, of Galashiels. Selkirkshire. Allied.
Remembered with honour
AABENRAA CEMETERY


In Memory of
Flight Sergeant EDWIN JOHN ROWE

648115, 101 Sqdn., Royal Air Force
who died age 23
on 21 September 1942
Son of John Gough Rowe and Emily Sophia Rowe, of Ventnor, Isle of Wight. Allied.
Remembered with honour
AABENRAA CEMETERY


In Memory of
Flying Officer RAYMOND EDWARD NORTON BUTCHER

406638, Royal Australian Air Force
who died age 24
on 21 September 1942
Son of Edward William Timperley Butcher and Muriel Leura Butcher, of Armadale, Western Australia.
Remembered with honour
AABENRAA CEMETERY

 

Spidge,

Something I hadn't picked up before; The write up on my fathers death says that his plane was washed up on a shore near Arnum, Denmark. I have read another report somewhere suggesting that the plane crashed in a field inland, and even giving the location. Not sure what is the truth of it but I do know that they were on a mine laying mission.

Pete.

 

Hi Pete,
My name is David Bebbington, and I a teacher at Magdalen College School, Oxford. Your father, Victor Roberton Paterson, was a boarder at the school from Jan 1928 until Dec 1933. He played 2nd XI cricket, 1st XI hockey, 1st XV rugby, competed for the school at athletics and was a Lance Corporal in the schools OTC. I have lots more information about him if you would like to find out more about his school days.
A father to be proud of even before considering his service to the country.
I hope this message finds you well.
David

 

Hi - Pete - we're 3rd cousins and I am just exploring some new edges to my family tree. We are related via the Laughlands in Lanarkshire. I just read this - Wellington III X3815 crashed in Spandet moor on 21/9-1942

In reply to the original post about double-barrels, I have seen a few cases where a family name was used as a middle name for some or all siblings, who were free to double barrel themselves if they wanted. Sometimes they were known by the middle name as a first name, also, it seems. I searched for Roberton-Paterson online... found you dotted around the internet here and there. I hope you see this and are able to respond. My blog is online - About