Need help with finding certain war diaries

Discussion in 'RAC & RTR' started by Romani, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. Romani

    Romani Member

    At the recommendation of a friend, I've decided to ask for the war diaries for some specific British armoured units during the fighting in Normandy.

    I was hoping if anyone could share the war diaries for the 2nd Northants Yeomanry for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th of August 1944, the 23rd Hussars for the 2nd August (in particular A squadron), the Welsh Guards for the 2nd of August and the 7th Royal Tank Regiment for the 10th and 11th of July.

    I am trying to determine tank losses for these units on those dates, so with that in mind any primary source which will have them are welcome. I am also trying to find any allied armoured units in action around the town of Brunehamel on 30 August 1944.

    (P.S. This is my first time on this forum, so if I need to repost this under a different topic, that would be good to know.)
     
  2. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    hello there
    i have sent a message to a forum member who can assist you

    regards
    Clive
     
  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    I'm only posting these ref's up from the National Archives as you may find them useful, I suspect they'll be other similiar files within the WO 205 series you may find useful. I copied them for someone a few years ago but formatted the hard drive and lost all the data. Subsequently I wasn't able to obtain copies back.

    WO 205/112 Armament wastage rates

    WO 205/631 Armoured replacement group June - Nov 1944

    WO 205/636 AFV tank states June July 1944
    WO 205/637 2nd Army daily tank states June July 1944
    WO 205/638 AFV tank states Aug - Oct 1944

    WO 205/1165 A survey of tank casualties in NWE by Capts Wright and Harkness

    I have copies of all the war diaries you are after but I'm up at 4am for work so you'll have to wait a few days for those. I suspect though they may not hold the details you are looking for.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Two more for you to consider :D

    WO 205/631 Armoured replacement group June - Nov 1944
    WO 205/1131 REME in NW Europe 1944-45
     
  5. Romani

    Romani Member

    Thanks for the replies. It was way more than I expected, the forum does not disappoint. Though, I am rather new to archival research, so I was just hoping to ask a few questions.

    1. How do I get a hold of all these archival materials you brought up? Do I need to order them, and if so, where?
    2. For WO 636-8 what exactly do they mean by tank states, more details on these ones would be helpful.
    3. WO 1165 sounds really interesting. But again, what exactly is it all about? Does it have day-by-day tank casualties, for instance?

    Thanks for the very helpful response, and I look forward to seeing what is in the war diary for those units.
     
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    1. The regarding files I listed you would have to visit the National Archives yourself and view/copy them or get someone to copy them for you, like me.

    2. I can't remember the content. It was several years ago that I copied them, I can tell you roughly how many pages are in each file. I think each page was a day listing tank losses by type, destroyed, damaged and replaced - I don't think it listed the losses by unit though.

    3. This was a good file as I remember there were pictures of British destroyed tanks showing the hit and was damage was caused and injuries sustained by the crew.

    Here's your first diary:

    WO 171/860 2 Northamptonshire Yeomanry Jan-Sep 1944
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  7. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

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    4jonboy likes this.
  9. Romani

    Romani Member

    This first war diary will come in handy, thank-you very much.

    Do you know of any other documents that give more detail on tank losses by this unit? If I'm reading Ian Daglish correctly, the 2nd Northants are supposed to have lost 47 tanks over the course of either 2-3 August or 3-4 August. This document specifically mentions 9, but it must have been more than that.
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Nope, sorry.
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    23 Hussars August 1944 war diary

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  12. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    2 Welsh Guards War Diary August 1944

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  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    7 Royal Tank Regiment War Diary July 1944

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  14. Romani

    Romani Member

    The war diaries you've listed will be a tremendous help, and have far exceeded my expectations. I'm grateful.

    Right now I think the next logical step is to try and find numbers, wherever I can. There are plenty of times in the diaries, for instance, when I know how many tanks were lost (or should have been lost) but there are no numbers to be more precise. I'd like to check out WO 205/636-8 and WO 205/1165 personally. However since I herald from Saskatchewan, I think it would be a bit hard to justify going all the way to the UK just to pick up some archival materials :( .

    Thus, I was wondering if there was a way to order them. I know you can do that with some archives, is it possible to do it with this one?
     
  15. m kenny

    m kenny Senior Member

    WO 205/1165 is already on this site in full but even then it is only about 1945 losses . You already have WO 205/637 assembled in a word document. WO 205/636 & WO 205/638 are very general counts and of no real use to you and are online on a few wargaming sites .
     
  16. Romani

    Romani Member

    I still would like to see the latter two though, do you have any links to them?
    Those last light numbers will come in handy though, are there no other comparable statistics for other theatres or times in the war? It might help with later research. It would also be helpful to see breakdowns of tank losses during August as well, if at all possible.

    Thanks again for all the resources you've sent so far. It helps a great deal.
     
  17. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    Click on the red link below if you want any files copied from the National Archives in London for infomation on what I do - I charge 10p per page. If you decide you want anything copying just send me a private message.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  18. Romani

    Romani Member

    This is a bit off topic, but I am currently looking for some good maps of the 11th Armoured Divisions' sector on the 2nd and 3rd of August (during Operation Bluecoat). A map of the battles around hill 112 on 11 July would also be helpful.
     

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