Need assistance with cause of death details for RAAF members

Hi Dave,

I have Miller as 56sq not 37sq

I have Cochrane as 37sq not 56sq.

Cheers

Geoff


bugger - I copied the info into a word document to tidy it up before I placed it on the thread and somehow I managed to transpose the names

 

Dave,
E.J. Lawer, captain of 10sqdn Halifax W1056, which went down into the sea off the Dutch coast at approx 01.40hrs on the morning of 3rd Jul42, on ops to Bremen. From Chorley, vol 3.


Thanks - added to the info from rafcommands to round out the picture

cheers


Dave

 

Hello there,

I know this is a longshot, but I'm researching a TV documentary that focuses on the story of a particular Australian pilot-officer who flew with RAF squadrons 242, 126 and 185 in Malta from late 1941 to May 1942, when he was killed in action. He flew Hurricanes, followed by a few flights in a Spitfire, which he was flying when he was shot down near Ta'Qali.

His name was JOHN LIVINGSTONE "Tony" BOYD and he was originally from Queensland. We have tracked down his service records but are very keen to have any information/anecdotes/photographs from anyone who may have known him or worked with him. We are also very interested in talking to any Maltese survivors who were there at that time.

All information/possible sources gratefully received.

Thank you, Amanda

 

JACKLIN, John Francis - (Sergeant) 404853


I had a win with this member's casualty details on a recent trip to the National Archives in Canberra.

I now have an aircraft number, but I can't find any reference to the aircraft on the internet and for some reason I can't search rafcommands.

Here is the info I now have, hoping that someone can add to it (circumstances of loss, crew list) -


JACKLIN, John Francis (Sergeant) 404853

Wellington BZ8712 / Place - Mediterranean Region

09-May-42

221SQN Coastal Command (Headquarters Royal Air Force Malta ATTD RAF) (AWM pdf has no extra info) (Cause of death information obtained from member’s NAA pers file - other crew not named in file). Committee of Adjustment file held by NAA, however, they do not hold a RAAF Casualty file.

 

BZ8712 is not a valid Wellington serial.

All RAF serials were either ALPHA, ALPHA, NUMBER, NUMBER, NUMBER or
ALPHA, NUMBER, NUMBER, NUMBER, NUMBER

B is the aircraft code letter and the serial is Z8712
From Air Britain
Z8712 Mk VIII
15OUT/1443 Flight/SD Flight. Missing on shipping search from Malta 09.05.42

There is a problem with the forum search on RAFCommands. Various posts give the better search workround of using Google Advanced Search using the site rafcommands.com to give all relevent posts from that domain.

Regards
Ross

 

Thanks again Ross - my fault for believing 70 year old bits of paper. Obviously the person who completed the form missed a space between the B and the Z....

Unfortunately I still can't find anything on that tail number on the net, do you have the crew list??

cheers


Dave

 

Not yet researched but the following would be the steps I would take.

Use Geoffs search engine for
221 Partial unit
09/05/1942
United Kingdom

This will give the squadron losses on this date.

Repeat without unit for date and Canadian, New Zealand, Aus to see who else was lost/buried in the Malta area.

Wellington crew normally 5 but as this was a Special Duties Flight I would look for 6 crew including the special operator.

Confirmation of unit can be obtained by putting the names into the General Registry Office Overseas War Deaths 1939-45 and using the basic index return.

This procedure will give a "best guess" range of names for losses on a particular date.

Only fly in the ointment is if more than 1 aircraft was lost and a bit more research is needed.

Ross

 

Ross - thanks again, I will continue on.......

update: that went easier than I had hoped (I'm guessing that the Corporal is the "Special Operator") -



Squadron Leader GORRINGE-SMITH, John Edward 40470 RAF

Sergeant BENTLEY, Alwyn 945463 RAF

Corporal FEW, Frederick John 646908 RAF

Flight Sergeant GROSVENOR, Thomas Frederick 755929 RAF

Flying Officer LESLIE, John Alan 65546 RAF

 

I used Ross's advice to obtain crew names for the loss of Sergeant Jacklin in a 221SQN Wellington Z8712 and it went better than I had expected.

I then thought I would apply the same logic to another casualty I am struggling to find aircraft and crew information on and failed miserably.

I seem unable to get names of other crew members using the date of death and the SQN number. The unit was operating Bristol Blenheims at the time of his death, so logically three people would have been on board.

A few options exist: he was flying a Blenheim solo, or one crashed but he was the only fatality. Another option is that it was a ground incident and he was struck by an aircraft on the ground.



HARVIE, John Alfred (Flying Officer) 407672 RAAF

Flying accident (Cause of death from AWM pdf)

Place - Maaten Bagush, Middle East

4-Mar-42

14SQN RAF (AHQWD) - killed in a flying accident at Maaten Bagush, Middle East. Buried in El Alamein War Cemetery. National Archives do not hold a RAAF Casualty file and no information is available as to the circumstances surrounding the accident on his pers file. (AWM pdf - no extra info) (cannot find on rafcommands / NLA).

In September 1940 the squadron started converting to Bristol Blenheims, these were employed in bombing missions over the Western Desert. B-26 Maruaders were received in May 1942 and used in bombing, mine-laying and shipping reconnaissance missions.


Flight Global lists him as "Killed in Action" - Royal Australian Air Force


KILLED IN ACTION.—P/O. J. A. Harvie; F/O. T. L. Threlkeld.

WOUNDED OR INJURED IN ACTION.—Sgt. D. McQueen.




sgt | active service | reported missing | 1942 | 0838 | Flight Archive

 

Another researcher has done this for you but the result is on paper not the Web so be sure to credit them for the work or seek permission if you intend to use several references from it.

04/03/42
14 Sqn
Blenheim IV
Z7893
U
F/O J A Harvie RAAF

Took off Qasaba on a ferry flight to 14 Squadron. The pilot misjudged his approach and the port wing struck the Officers Mess, the arcraft crashing and bursting into flames. The pilot is buried in the El Alamein War Cemetery.

RAF Bomber Losses in the Middle East and Mediterranean, Vol 1 1939-42
David Gunby & Pelham Temple
ISBN 1-85780-234-9

If a Form 1180 was raised for the accident it will give the total number of crew onboard and break this down to killed and injured. As it was a delivery flight a solo flight may have been authorised but getting a copy of the Form1180 from RAF Museum Hendon will confirm.

Regards
Ross

 

Thanks for that Ross - I really need to expand my collection of books.

This is what I have placed on my little database to replace the original I used in yesterday's post:


HARVIE, John Alfred (Flying Officer) 407672 RAAF

Blenheim IV “U” Z7893

Place - Maaten Bagush, Middle East

4-Mar-42

14SQN RAF (AHQWD) - killed in a flying accident at Maaten Bagush, Middle East, buried in El Alamein War Cemetery. Took off Qasaba on a ferry flight to 14 Squadron. The pilot misjudged his approach and the port wing struck the Officers Mess, the aircraft crashing and bursting into flames. (details of incident from book: RAF Bomber Losses in the Middle East and Mediterranean, Vol 1 1939-42 by David Gunby & Pelham Temple).

National Archives do not hold a RAAF Casualty file and no information is available as to the circumstances surrounding the accident on his pers file. (AWM pdf has no extra info).

In September 1940 the squadron started converting to Bristol Blenheims, these were employed in bombing missions over the Western Desert. B-26 Maruaders were received from May 1942 and used in bombing, mine-laying and shipping reconnaissance missions.

 

Hi all - just an update from the front page info as I am very close to having established a cause of death for all WW2 RAAF fatalities (over 11000 personnel).

I recently spent some time at the National Archives in Canberra where I examined over 100 casualty files for members where I could not obtain cause of death from any of the internet sites I visited or from a reliable book or from visits to various state archives and libraries to access their newspaper collections.

A general note here is that a great researcher called Alan Storr has compiled data on most RAAF casualties outside of Australia & the Pacific (these appear in my notes as the “AWM pdf” records.

I have tried to focus on the ones not covered by Alan, especially ground casualties or where his work at the National Archives did not provide the required info.

The only remaining mysteries for me are three blokes who died in the UK & Ceylon & Egypt, two in Rhodesia plus eighteen in Canada. Over the last few days I have closed off 3 other difficult cases (thanks mainly to Ross).


cheers


Dave

 

Speaking of my remaining UK casualty, here is what I have so far - I don't think there is any more to be had, but I'm throwing it open just in case someone can provide flight details....


MURPHY, Eric Reginald Harry (Flight Sergeant) 417399 RAAF

Asphyxiation during aircraft training flight

Place - RAF Moreton-in-Marsh, England

3-Feb-44

21OTU RAF - Flt Sgt Murphy, a Navigator Bomb Aimer, died as a result of a suspected oxygen failure during a training flight in the UK. No other details of the flight are available as Archives do not hold the relevant Casualty file (from AWM pdf). (cannot find on rafcommands) (extra information obtained from member’s NAA pers file)

 

I don't suppose that someone has access to Volume 7 of the Chorley Bomber Command Losses series that could look this one up for me in.

I just bought volume 9 as it provides the full nominal roll of casualties, Murphy appears on there but the only volume between 1 - 8 that I can't access through my library service is number 7 covering OTUs.

All I really want is the aircraft type and tail number, with other casualties if known (it sounds like a probable single casualty during a training flight).

 

Dave,

Had a look at the relevant date in Vol.7 of RAF Bomber Command Losses and there is no entry for a 21 OTU loss for this date, as you say it seems it could have been a single casualty which occurred during a training flight and not related to an aircraft loss.

Regards
Peter

 

Thanks for that - I just saw this description elsewhere which must sum up incidents like the one I am chasing:

Vol 9 is a Roll of Honour with each year a separate chapter and with sections for RAAF, RCAF etc it does not contain details of individual a/c losses but among the names are those of Aircrew that were brought back dead, baled out, or otherwise were part of the crews of a/c that made it back and were not themselves losses and thus are not in the other volumes.

 

Next problem, I can’t even manage to locate this casualty in Volume 9 of Bomber Command Losses (I previously checked the 1944 volume with no success either). The RAF member on the same flight who died the following day from his injuries appears in Vol 9

I really just want to know what aircraft number they were on, but I’m not getting very far with that.

MASHMAN, Keith Austin (Flight Sergeant) 424776 RAAF

Halifax XXX

Vendiville, France

4-Nov-44

51SQN RAF (info from AWM Photo). Group portrait of seven crew members of 51 Squadron: 1602239 RAF Sergeant (Sgt) Anthony Henry John (Tony) Goddard, Navigator; 1199242 RAF Sgt F A Withers, Air Gunner; New Zealander 477233 RNZAF Flight Sergeant (Flt Sgt) E G Silcock, Bomb Aimer; Australian 424776 RAAF Fgt Keith Austin Mashman, Wireless Operator. Front row: Scotsman Sgt E Curr, RAF Engineer; Australian 428265 RAAF Pilot Officer C W Simpson, Pilot (no NAA casualty file); Englishman 752346 RAF Sgt K Sharp, Air Gunner. On the night of 4 November 1944, after the crew's first operation over Germany, their Halifax aircraft was hit and Flt Sgt Mashman was killed in action and Sgt Goddard was wounded, dying the next day. Both are buried in the Lille Southern Cemetery in Nord, France. (Aircraft number not on AWM pdf or NAA pers file, unable to locate NAA casualty file)

 

No takers, which is a pity. I was hoping that the relevant Chorley volume (which I don't have access to) would have a mention of this incident.

What seems odd is that the two casualties are buried in France when they were in a Bomber Command aircraft that presumably wasn't shot down or a total loss otherwise.

Is the fatality of Goddard mentioned in the 1944 volume?? Or is it one of those where because the aircraft survived the incident isn't included in the specific year chapter??

If so, it still doesn't explain why Mashman is missing in the ROH volume

 

Dave,

On the night of 4-5 November 1944, 51 Squadron lost three aircraft on a raid to Bochum.

The loss you are researching is not listed as one of these aircraft in Chorley's Vol.5 covering 1944.

Regards
Peter