Nazi resistance post VE Day?

Discussion in 'General' started by 2EastYorks, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. 2EastYorks

    2EastYorks Senior Member

    Hi

    I was just wondering if after the cessation of hostilities whether there was any Nazi resistance/guerilla warfare and if so where and for how long?

    Matt
     
  2. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Had memories of a book on that subject in recent years. Wiki references it here. I haven't read it, though, so I can't do much more than point you at it.
     
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  3. ELLE

    ELLE Junior Member

    There was actually a program (history channel) on nazi guerillas. I give you a qoute on how long the resistance went on for. From a Nazi Gerilla resistance fighter qoute: "The allies won't be here for ever" This means the nazi girillas were intened to stay around even after the allies left.
     
  4. Elven6

    Elven6 Discharged

    There was actually a program (history channel) on nazi guerillas. I give you a qoute on how long the resistance went on for. From a Nazi Gerilla resistance fighter qoute: "The allies won't be here for ever" This means the nazi girillas were intened to stay around even after the allies left.

    Do you know what the program was called? Perhaps their is a Youtube video floating around the web?
     
  5. WotNoChad?

    WotNoChad? Senior Member

    History Channel? Pah!

    YouTube - Werwolf Guerrillas in Germany 1945-1948 (1/2)

    Few good books though;
    Fuller, J.F.C. Die entartete Kunst, Krieg zu fuhren 1789-1961. Koln: 1964.
    Goebbels, Josepf. Tagebucher. Hamburg: 1977.
    Grau, Karl-Friedrich. Schlesisches Inferno. Stuttgart: 1966.
    Lons, Herman. Der Werwolf. Jena: 1920.
    Rose, Arno. Werwolf 1944-1945. Stuttgart: 1980.
    Werwolf, Winke fur Jagdeinheinten. Berlin: 1945.
    Whiting, Charles. Werewolf, The Story of Nazi Resistance Movement, 1944-1945. London: 1972.
     
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  6. Elven6

    Elven6 Discharged

    I hope I don't have my dates mixed up but I remember reading that after many Heer units surrendered in Germany and the war ended, they helped the Allies fight the remaining S.S. resistance.

    Berchesgarden (I know I butchered that) was supposed to be the last stronghold of the Nazi Party. When the 506th Airborne (Easy Company) got there everyone either surrendered without force or killed themselves. One of the final episodes of "Band of Brothers" (which focuses on Easy Company) shows this if you want to take a look.

    I'm sure extreme post war Nazi sympathizers may have done something. The Wiki for the Werewolfs posted above goes into detail about some of the more "confirmed" partisan groups. I highly doubt all Partisian forces would be fighting for Nazism, that might be something you should look into.
     
  7. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    Charles Whiting's book isn't great - it deals mostly with the assasination of the mayor of Aachen....but IS valuable for something else; it's a good study (tho' short) of the kind of thinking and paranoia that led the Allies to believe in the "Apline Redout" idea!

    AFAIK, the last verifiable "Werwolf" activity....or rather, activity by a Werwolf - was the bombing in Hamburg IIRC by Otto Kubus in 1948...by that time the population had turned against the Werwolves completely.

    Occasionally there are references in records to groups/truckloads of "Werwolves" operating in the West alongside Heer and W-SS personnel in the last weeks of the war - but I think here the term is more likely being used in place of Volksturm.
     
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  8. Bob Guercio

    Bob Guercio Senior Member

    There was actually a program (history channel) on nazi guerillas. I give you a qoute on how long the resistance went on for. From a Nazi Gerilla resistance fighter qoute: "The allies won't be here for ever" This means the nazi girillas were intened to stay around even after the allies left.

    Interestingly, once Japan surrendered, the soldiers and citizens totally accepted the consequences. I am not talking about soldiers that didn't know that the war was over and continued soldiering by living off the land for decades.

    Surrender was considered by Japan to be a disgrace so that when they surrendered, they were "disgraced". I believe this caused the Japanese to adopt a subservient attitude making the occupation much easier for the allies.

    A comparison can be made with the common soldier who, although rare, surrendered. The bushido code did not address surrender since it was not allowed. Thus, when Japanese soldiers surrended, they did not know what they were supposed to do and, in many cases, they willingly became helpful to the allies.

    Bob Guercio
     
  9. Elven6

    Elven6 Discharged

    Interestingly, once Japan surrendered, the soldiers and citizens totally accepted the consequences. I am not talking about soldiers that didn't know that the war was over and continued soldiering by living off the land for decades.

    Surrender was considered by Japan to be a disgrace so that when they surrendered, they were "disgraced". I believe this caused the Japanese to adopt a subservient attitude making the occupation much easier for the allies.

    A comparison can be made with the common soldier who, although rare, surrendered. The bushido code did not address surrender since it was not allowed. Thus, when Japanese soldiers surrended, they did not know what they were supposed to do and, in many cases, they willingly became helpful to the allies.

    Bob Guercio

    Bushidoism is much deeper than the "no surrender" conception it gained in recent years, it is a great thing isn't it? The Japanese lost and it was deemed a insult, trying to create a partisan group of sorts would be seen as a dishonorable thing to do. I believe under Bushidoism if you survive you have to honor the fact that your enemy was able to defeat you.

    Bushidoism takes on many different forms, even if you find a loop hole in one, you will find a way to make it up in a sense somewhere else. Bushidoism might also be the reason as to why confirmed war criminals are nationally honored.

    I also have reason to believe Bushido wasn't practiced to the extent that the world claims it was. Perhaps certain ideologies were practiced by the Japanese population in general, but certainly not all.

    Edit: The Bushido code does address surrender, one of the forms I am aware of is ritual suicide.
     
  10. Bob Guercio

    Bob Guercio Senior Member

    Edit: The Bushido code does address surrender, one of the forms I am aware of is ritual suicide.

    You know what I mean!
     
  11. Ron Goldstein

    Ron Goldstein WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran Patron

    Nazi resistance post VE Day ?

    Resistance of a kind there certainly was and I've mentioned this before:

    Wednesday 2nd. May 1945
    Jerry threw his hand in Italy and Austria. Fired all our 2" mortars, phosphorous bombs and verey lights and had bonfires all over the shop.
    Cease fire about 11 pm.
    ( At noon today the Germans signed an unconditional surrender at Caserta)

    Within days the whole regiment was summoned on parade by the CO who addressed us as follows:
    "As you know the war in Europe is now over, and I suppose most of you are looking forward to seeing your loved ones again after years spent overseas. I must tell you, however, that there is an SS Cavalry Division in Austria at the moment who refuse to cease fighting and our regiment has been given the honour of going up there and persuading them that it would be a good idea on their part to surrender to us."

    We swapped our tanks for Armoured Cars and roared up North to Austria but, by the time we got there, the SS Div had changed their mind and we finished up taking them prisoner
    Full story here: BBC - WW2 People's War - The War Ends in Italy, 2nd May 1945
     
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  12. sol

    sol Very Senior Member

    In Yugoslavia Germans continue to fight 8 days after the official surrender on Monday May 7 1945 and finally capitulated on May 15 1945. Battle of Poljana on May 14/15 1945 was last battle of WW2 in Europe.
     
  13. WotNoChad?

    WotNoChad? Senior Member

    Charles Whiting's book isn't great - it deals mostly with the assasination of the mayor of Aachen....but IS valuable for something else; it's a good study (tho' short) of the kind of thinking and paranoia that led the Allies to believe in the "Apline Redout" idea!

    A very good point, it's very similar to the paranoia stirred by Operation Greif, which although it was tiny and not very succesful, compared to the vision and the plan, ended up having GIs challenging and arresting each other and Eisenhower being seen as an assasination target.

    Occasionally there are references in records to groups/truckloads of "Werwolves" operating in the West alongside Heer and W-SS personnel in the last weeks of the war - but I think here the term is more likely being used in place of Volksturm.

    I agree. Skorzeny was involved in Operation Werwolf, but he saw it was a non-runner and converted it into an escape network instead. I think the idea of werwolfs has more of a myth than reality, borne of propaganda, paranoia and over 60 years of rumour... German Whispers if you like. :)
     
  14. Jakob Kjaersgaard

    Jakob Kjaersgaard Senior Member

    In Helberskov, Denmark, a german garrison lead by oberstleutnant Simon refused to surrender until 10th of May, where they stood their ground at a coastal battery. Not until 2 o'clock on the 10th of May when the brits arrived, the germans surrendered to lieutenant Phipps.



    Jakob
     
  15. Za Rodinu

    Za Rodinu Hot air manufacturer

    The Germans in Svlabard were not stubborn, they were simply forgotten : Station Haudegen was established in 1944. As for all the other German stations, the location was carefully picked to keep far away from Allied activity. The station was staffed by 11 men equipped to be self-sufficient for 18 months of isolation. They were not evacuated until September 1945, several months after the war was over. Haudegen was left intact and lots of equipment was left in the station.

    Svalbard's history
     
  16. 2EastYorks

    2EastYorks Senior Member

    Thanks everyone, Werwolf rang a bell but I wasn't sure. Plenty of interesting reading there so my thanks for that.

    Interestingly there's also an alternative history book by Harry Turtledove entitled 'The Man With The Iron Heart' that deals with this, The Man with the Iron Heart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    might be worth a look.
     
  17. Gunpowder

    Gunpowder Junior Member

    A comparison can be made with the common soldier who, although rare, surrendered. The bushido code did not address surrender since it was not allowed. Thus, when Japanese soldiers surrended, they did not know what they were supposed to do and, in many cases, they willingly became helpful to the allies.



    That scenario is described in this old U.S. WWII article based on some British comments:The following incident shows the typical attitude of the PW as soon as the self-destruction phase passes.

    One Japanese interrogated in Melbourne said he had no desire to return to Japan. He believed that his former friends would have nothing to do with him because he had been taken alive by the enemy and that he would be unable to get back into the army. He preferred to stay in Australia.

    Coupled with the comparative leniency of his captors, this conviction induces in the prisoner a pliancy unusual in PW's from other nations, say, Nazi Germany. The self-justification is: "Officially, I am dead; legally, I am stateless: why not talk if I can thereby mitigate or improve my position with my captors."


    Rest of article is here:
    Japanese Prisoners of War, WWII Tactical and Technical Trends, No. 10
     
  18. At Home Dad (Returning)

    At Home Dad (Returning) Well-Known Member

    Here's an interesting article from Armour magazine, 2004, comparing the Werewolves of Germany with the Fadayeen of Iraq. (It's in pdf format)
     
  19. 2EastYorks

    2EastYorks Senior Member

    Thanks Dad that was an interesting read.
     
  20. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    By the way - going back to page One - the book referred to there is Perry Biddiscombe's Werwolf!: The History of the National Socialist Guerrilla Movement, 1944–1946

    It's essential reading...well, actually it's the ONLY decent study on the subject! :lol:
     

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