A German historian has found possible information that points to the Nazi's detonating a small 'hybrid' nuclear weapon on the 3rd of March 1945 at Thuringia which destroyed an area of about 500 sq m - killing several hundred prisoners of war and concentration camp inmates. The full story can be found here http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4348497.stm. As is said there is much sceptism about this from historians and others a like.
Personally, having not read the new book, I would take this with a big pinch of salt, because I don't think that the Nazis were anywhere near enriching their small stock of uranium.
I haven't read it either and am very sceptical of the findings, but it would interesting to find someone who has read the book to see what they think of it, but I do not believe that the German's had enough Uranium to even make it worthwhile to build a bomb, and until proved otherwise that is the view I will continue to have.
I actually saw a mention of this in a biography of Mussolini, by Richard Collier, an account of an Italian Fascist journalist present at a late-war test of what he described as a very powerful bomb. He wasn't sure if it was just strong explosives or what. So when I heard this story, I remembered that one. This might be the incident he describes. However, the Collier incident is from Rugen Island on 12 October 1944, so back we go to the beginning. I await more proof, but I have no doubt the Germans were working, albeit in a desultory manner, on an atomic bomb. If they'd had it, they'd have used it, on London or Moscow. Via V-2.
As Dr. Goudsmit wrote in his final report: The evaluation of the intelligence indicated that the Germans believed that they were far ahead of American developments in this field. In reality the Germans, though they started sooner, were far behind. They had given up altogether the idea of making a bomb and were concentrating their efforts on constructing an energy-producing machine, which they called a “Uranium Burner” [Uranbrenner]. At the end of the war, they had not even succeeded in constructing a selfsustaining chain reaction or “pile.” Nevertheless, they believed their progress to be so important that they offered to assist United States scientists in their efforts to harness atomic energy. They were convinced that their work would help Germany to dominate the world of science, even though the military struggle had been lost. Irving David, The Virus house, FPP, London, Pp344-5 During the last few days of the war, wild rumors began to circulate in southern Germany: Party officers went from house to house in Munich spreading the word that the German atomic bomb was about to be used. It was a rumor that many people believed. Colonel Geist, Speer’s chief of technical research, met his wife as both were fleeing before the enemy. She begged him to tell her whether Hitler had any more “miracle weapons” with which to snatch victory from defeat, even at this hour. Geist told her that there were none. For a time, he said, there had been some hope of manufacturing an atomic bomb; but Germany’s scientists had let her down. irving ibid P347
This is very hard to believe. A while ago I posted a topic regarding material that may be still classified from the war. The opinions of most were what would be the point in still hiding documents. If there were documents in Allied hands showing German nuclear capabilities what better propaganda for the Allies showing how vital it was to destroy Germany by what ever means. It would provide the perfect moral high ground no victor could afford to keep secret. I will believe the impossible but not the improbable is the saying.
I seriously doubt that they had already gotten the bomb- because as Kiwi already said, they would have used it for more than some islanders. I do think that they were very close to getting the bomb. That Uboat that tried to reach Japan near the end of the war- I forget the operation and junk, but it had two Japanese on it and apparently they were going to get some Uranium from Japan. I dont remember a whole lot of the details and I may get a bit wrong- I watched a documentary of it about a year ago- I think it was being chased by both the americans and the british. They eventually surrendered to the americans. I take that as a pretty good sign that the Germans were very close to th completion of a bomb. Does anyone know what that thing was called though. The article was interesting, is the book still available?
Originally posted by Dpalme01@Apr 29 2005, 02:23 PM I seriously doubt that they had already gotten the bomb- because as Kiwi already said, they would have used it for more than some islanders. I do think that they were very close to getting the bomb. That Uboat that tried to reach Japan near the end of the war- I forget the operation and junk, but it had two Japanese on it and apparently they were going to get some Uranium from Japan. I dont remember a whole lot of the details and I may get a bit wrong- I watched a documentary of it about a year ago- I think it was being chased by both the americans and the british. They eventually surrendered to the americans. I take that as a pretty good sign that the Germans were very close to th completion of a bomb. Does anyone know what that thing was called though. The article was interesting, is the book still available? [post=33750]Quoted post[/post] the U-boat was carrying uranium 235 and a couple of engineers but they were for the me262s being carried.
I'm not sure that it's possible to make a very small atomic bomb that would only destry 500 sq m. You need a certain amount of uranium or plutonium to achieve critical mass. And there would still be radiation evident at the site of such an explosion Adrian
This is a fascinating, if horrifying prospect. Originally posted by Kiwiwriter@Mar 15 2005, 11:29 AM If they'd had it, they'd have used it, on London or Moscow. Via V-2. [post=32228]Quoted post[/post] On the surface, I 'd have to agree. But one caveat I would have to the certainty of Hitler using a nuclear weapon is if he knew the Allies had one as well. Wasn't he loathe to use chemical weapons for fear of retaliation? (I'm sure his personal experience with Mustard gas in WWI had something to do with it). Would he have felt the same about other WMD's if he knew retaliation was possible? Or was he so desperate by that point in the war that he'd do anything to turn the tide?
Originally posted by adrian roberts@Apr 29 2005, 11:13 PM I'm not sure that it's possible to make a very small atomic bomb that would only destry 500 sq m. You need a certain amount of uranium or plutonium to achieve critical mass. And there would still be radiation evident at the site of such an explosion Adrian [post=33787]Quoted post[/post] that is quite correct and if there had been a explosion then there would more evidence. No doubt conspiracy theorists would claim that the allies had cleaned up the area
I can see the point of using it on London, however I would have thought the then USSR would have been a more signifcant target for such a bomb. As said though I doubt if a test had been carried out, even at 500 sq m, it would have been hard to hide. I suppose this needs to come back to issue mentioned above that had Hitler used such weapons knowing the Allies could retaliate then I am not so sure he would have been see keen to use them. The ability to use such WMD came I believe in the closing stages of the war for Germany, so this could have been a much more dangerous and easier time for Hitler to make such a decision possibly?
Originally posted by Lee Wisener@May 1 2005, 10:25 AM I can see the point of using it on London, however I would have thought the then USSR would have been a more signifcant target for such a bomb. As said though I doubt if a test had been carried out, even at 500 sq m, it would have been hard to hide. I suppose this needs to come back to issue mentioned above that had Hitler used such weapons knowing the Allies could retaliate then I am not so sure he would have been see keen to use them. The ability to use such WMD came I believe in the closing stages of the war for Germany, so this could have been a much more dangerous and easier time for Hitler to make such a decision possibly? [post=33821]Quoted post[/post] What seems to be forgotten is that Germany lacked the strategic bombers to drop the bomb on any important political target. If they were to use it then it would make better military sense to use it against the Russian army in an attempt to stop them in their tracks, thus allow allowing to Germany to strike at the weaker western allies; while the Russian were recovering. There is however one important question that has to be asked. The Germans had not created a controlled fusion and had not put much effort into the atomic programme then how could they be expected to create a nuclear weapon of any size or shape?
