Ok if you have Ordinary Seaman which is an apprenticeship to become an Able Seaman, Able Seaman (abbreviated AB for able bodied) referred to a seaman with at least two years' experience at sea. Why are the stokers just stokers. Hope you can see where i am going with this question. Is the stoker the lowest of the low. What if he is there for for more than two years, should he have been Able stoker/ Able seaman stoker ? I see you get 1st class, 2nd class and leading stoker, but it still does not say where they are in the ranks. Navy Ranks Admiral of the Fleet Admiral Commodore Captain Commander Lt. Commander Lieutenant Sub-Lieutenant Ensign Midshipman Warrant Officer Petty Officer Leading Rate Seaman
Stokers in ww2 kept the ship at sea more than any others. So I'd say they fitted in down below, sweating and heaving, and were a class apart, so rank structure meant little to them unless you wore braid on your arms. I would say that, my old man was a stoker.
My 'old man' was a Ist Engineer in the Merchant Navy....He wouldn't be too impressed with the term lowest of the low. The Engine Room is the heart of the ship as far as he was concerned. Lots of info on rank etc here if you have a look around. Uniforms and Badges of Rank : RN Life : Training and People : Royal Navy Cheers Andy
Does this also apply to a Bosons (spelling) mate? I don't know about ww2 but I was talking to a sailor who is in the RAN and he said that the stoker is kind of like a sergeant in the army he looks after the compatment he is assigned to and is only answerable to the higher ranking officers of the vessel such as the captain and the XO. Which would explain why the men with those ranks are seen talking directly to the captain.
No offence ment to those STOKERS. but was just wondering why or where would they fit in, it just seems strange that there is no place of the ranks lists to place them. My wife's grandfather was a 2nd class stoker, so I was just trying to see if anyone else had a better thought as to where they would be. Because if they did not have any stokers, where or how would the ship move.
I think you may find a Stoker is a trade rather than a rank. A bit like a tech in the Signals. I still haven't spoke to my Dad as I thought someone would have come up with a definative answer by now.
Does this also apply to a Bosons (spelling) mate? ..... Nope......Boatswains Mate or Bos'ns Mate is the "rate" that is directly responsible for the day to operation and upkeep of the ship and are what comprises the "Deck Department" They are also the ones resposible for the irritating whistle blasts and announcements over the 1MC : " Sweepers Sweepers man your brooms. Give the ship a clean sweep down fore and aft. Sweep down all lower decks ladder wells and passage ways.....now sweepers" Bos'ns and anyone in the deck department refer to themselves as "Deck Apes" if anyone outside the deck department uses the term it is often followed by trip to the Pharmicist's Mate. Brad
OK, During the Second World War period engine-room ratings in the Royal Navy were called stokers. Stoker 2nd class - ordinary rate Stoker 1st class - able rate Leading stoker - leading rate PO stoker - petty officer rate CPO stoker - chief petty officer rate. When I served they were called MEM (marine engineering mechanics) JMEM, MEM2, MEM1, LMEM, POMEM and CPOMEM. The Merchant Navy do not call their engine-room ratings stokers. They are called firemen, trimmers, greasers, donkeymen. They are called motormen now I think. I hope that helps Regards Hugh
No problem, Drew, I believe Navy ranks/trades have changed again since my time at sea 76-89. Regards Hugh
Thank you all. That helps me a lot to understand things. My question may have sounded daft to some, but to me it looked like they were there to just get on with it. It is good to understand why they are listed a stoker's 1st. 2nd or leading.
Cheers Hugh, I can't say I heard my Dad mention any of those terms and he was MN early post WW2. So he may have come up with something completely different and possibly wrong
Some 1942 reference that cropped up on this thread. Referring to Naval History's rank list: Ranks, Badges and Pay in the Royal Navy in World War 2 (stoker's pay scale from the Navy list here) I think the big Naval memorials like the one in Pompey say a lot about stokers. Always line after line of 'em out of all proportion to most other trades .
Navy stokers and their Merchant Navy equivalent had very little chance of survival when their ship was torpedoed. Regards Hugh