Hello. I've just received my Grandfathers Army Records. (I've asked for them as part of a family history research - both my Maternal Grandparents were killed within months of each other during WW2 and the whole area of family history has very little detail). Anyway he was in the Royal Engineers 107 Field Company, killed near Sangro in Italy on 7th July 1944. His Discharge Record (assume it's this as it's not labelled) mentions the "Nature of Engagement" as TA (W). Can anyone tell me what this means please? The Enlistment document shows it was a TA enlistment so I presume that's what the "TA" bit is for. Any other info relating to the regiments action then would also be very welcome. Thanks in advance and apologies if this has already been covered elsewhere. Andrew.
Hello Andrew, Welcome to the forum. Just a mention that the Moderator(s) may move your enquiry to its own thread; so be vigilant. There is not a lot of information on the web about the 107th Field Coy, RE, in WWII. That said, I have found mentions about it and the 107th Army Field Coy, RE. I think these are interchangeable titles as the following two side by side burials of the 7 July 1944 suggest – one is your grandfather? JONES, CHRISTOPHER Rank: Sapper Service No: 4685427 Date of Death: 07/07/1944 Age: 37 Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers, 107 Field Coy. Grave Reference: XIV. B. 31. Cemetery: SANGRO RIVER WAR CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Thomas and Lettie Jones; husband of Mabel Jones, of Doncaster, Yorkshire. PARKER, RICHARD GEORGE Rank: Driver Service No: 1945592 Date of Death: 07/07/1944 Age: 30 Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers, 107 Army Field Coy. Grave Reference: XIV. B. 32. Cemetery: SANGRO RIVER WAR CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Benjamin and Annie Louisa Parker. The first mention is with the BEF as 1 Corps HQ troops (Army in the title), the second with the 8th Army at the end of WWII. Looking at the CWGC information via Geoff’s – a forum member - search engine and tracking the 35 deaths recorded specifically as this unit, it served with the BEF in France/Belgium (27), N Africa (Tunisia) (1), Sicily (1), Italy (3) and in the UK (3); the latter possibly in accidents or from wounds received overseas. The Sicily and Italy deaths suggest 8th Army and Tunisia could be also. The TA(W) means a Territorial Army enlistment for the duration of the war only. Fairly normal. I trust this is helpful. There should be more information in his service record that will assist and you may wish to post this on the forum so members can help further. Best, Steve.
Hello Steve, Many many thanks for your help and time, very much appreciated!! I looked for my post the next day but I couldn't find it and assumed the site/Mods had deleted it. I only managed to find it again by looking at my profile posting stats and it said I'd posted two. I'd otherwise given up hope, but I've tagged it as Subscribed now so I won't miss any further replies. Hence the delay in responding. Yes, Richard is my Grandfather. He was killed on the 7th July after his wife was killed on 5th March by German Bombing of Bristol, leaving my mum at 6 years old, at the mercy of indifferent relatives. Since then, she and I have known virtually nothing about the whole episode until I started doing the Family History recently. Hitting this obstacle has been a real show stopper until now, so again, thank you. I'll happily post the entire Enlistment Paper and B200B details if they'd be useful for anyone, (I certainly want to know as much as I can from them), but I don't want to "spam" with unwanted/needed details, or waste anyones time. What would you suggest please? Best regards Andrew.
Hello Andrew, Post away, members of the forum will help where they can. No-one will think you are spamming. If you have full service records; brilliant. If not, post anything that you have and wish to share; including enlistment papers, photographs in uniform, letters, medals detail/photo, etc., etc. Look forward to you posting again. Best, Steve.
Thanks Steve, Again much appreciated. The attached file is the Discharge Record. I haven't managed to scan the rest yet as it's on a strange, larger-than-A4 size paper. But this will do for starters. I've started a Laymans guide on the side, for the things I don't understand. Regards Andrew.
Hello Andrew, The references to 78 and 68 CW Coy, RE, are to 'Chemical Warfare Company(s), Royal Engineers'. From what I have researched previoulsy, these CW Coy's mostly later converted in title to Field Company(s), Royal Engineers. I will research the three Coy's your grandfather served with and come back with any relevant information as soon as possible. If I am quiet for a few days it will be because I have not had time to look into matters further, yet! Have you thought of applying for his full service records? This link should assist with service records: Army Personnel Centre - British Army Website The link will guide you regarding needs and whether a fee - £30 for the service records, is required. It can take up to circa 9 to 12 months to get a response, so you will have to be patient. Make sure you ask for full service records! Edit: One other thing I should mention is that War Diaries for many RE Coy's are available for viewing and copying at The National Archive, Richmond on Thames. These will rarely refer to 'Other Ranks' unless an act of bravery is recorded and sometimes the circumstances of a soldiers death. They do give you information of where the RE Coy was situated at a particular date and what they were doing. A couple of forum members that I am aware of offer a copying service, Andy (handle 'Drew5233') and Lee (handle 'PhysWar.Org') at what I believe is a reasonable cost. I suggest that you wait until I/we have been able to provide you with the best general information available and that then you decide if you want to invest in War Diaries. Best, Steve.
Andrew, I noted in the discharge record there is a reference to 'X II list'. These seem to appear in a lot of records and cause some confusion. Sometimes they appear in Roman numerals eg X II, sometimes as X 2. This link might explain a bit about it: http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/research-material/32773-non-effective-service-list-x-list.html Mike
So the plot thickens.. Steve Mac: Chemical Warfare!!! Never thought I'd see that reference, especially after WW1 experiences and the Geneva Convention. Anyway, I live and learn. Thanks for your continuing efforts, very very helpful thanks you. I've just received his full Service records and have been getting them scanned in, trouble is the files are huge. I've uploaded the maximum size that the website will allow but I can email them direct if you need better detail? Oddly I have requested ACRE records but they've replied that specific information within this document is not easily identifiable and will require further research so I'll take your advice and see what you find before approaching your recommended sources. Mike L: Thanks for your X List references and pre-empting my questions, extensive if confusing; I can't tell if my Grandad was listed XII because he was ill or because of "detention" presumably meaning he'd "misbehaved" <ahem>. Either way the X4 listing makes sense now. I've created a Discharge Record Explanation document (as far as I can decypher it) but there are still areas (in Red Bold) that I can't make out, or understand. Any help there also appreciated. Many thanks to you both for your invaluable help. Andy.
So the plot thickens.. Steve Mac: Chemical Warfare!!! Never thought I'd see that reference, especially after WW1 experiences and the Geneva Convention. Anyway, I live and learn. Thanks for your continuing efforts, very very helpful thanks you. I've just received his full Service records and have been getting them scanned in, trouble is the files are huge. I've uploaded the maximum size that the website will allow but I can email them direct if you need better detail? Oddly I have requested ACRE records but they've replied that so I'll take your advice and see what you find before approaching your recommended sources. Andy. I will PM my e-mail address to you later, Andrew! Best, Steve.
Hello Andrew, I have sent you the PM! Have a look at pages 32 to 34 of this document - link: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:5ggxq_P9V-YJrbat.com/site/uk_orbats/files/6/RE%2520World%2520War%2520II.pdf+89th+Chemical+Warfare+Company,+RE&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiiDm__hsscw0wooXLv5kFoettGn31VmyPXBcmkEwnxteVY1tgPEfgC9ueaBT6gh2NyR3V1OqXet0ToXV5afyemc-5l7eTUXMMAEa2qaAjiYQAf_T-ATX-vBK61qlwkPCiiUzSb&sig=AHIEtbQjIjK11WJdZN-W5dd49omxK_hzjA It will give you some background on the three RE Coy's - 68CW, 78CW and 107FC -we currently know your grandfather served with. I know the reference to 'Chemical Warfare' Coys surprised you, as it did me the first time I read about them. However, we must remember that the British Army was in the main trained and prepared to fight the last War - WWI, where the use of Gas was widespread. In the event and to the best of my knowledge, Chemicals/Gas were not widely used in WWII, albeit I have read of certain Axis uses of it - the concentration camps being one. You will notice from the document linked that the Chemical Warfare Coy's were, happily, mothballed or retrained and converted to other specialisms. Best, Steve.
Steve Mac Welcome to the forum. Just a mention that the Moderator(s) may move your enquiry to its own thread; so be vigilant. Only just seen this , good idea, have moved to own thread.
Fixit - as i mentioned previously the term X(ii) - meant sick list and nothing to do with detention strange that he was killed near the Sangro in July 44 as the war had moved beyond ROME at that time so he might have been victim of an accident / mines etc Cheers
