National Archives - Kew Tips?

My current plan to defeat the ULEZ is to drive to Redbridge then tube it. Should only take an hour, so potentially quicker than the NW quadrant of the M25. Redbridge parking is £6 for the day and the tube should be a couple of quid each way so should save enough for breakfast against a bit of diesel, 400 yards of ULEZ and TNA's parking.

British Library is back to normal, but as that's the pre-covid 10 documents per day all-in, it's still not great for guaranteeing a worthwhile full day.

The new camera performed pretty well. Wanting AAs and a tilt screen limited the choice to megabucks or a £200 Nikon B500. It's a bit 'consumery' - doesn't even have a b&w photo mode - but auto mode with 1600 ISO resulted in nearly no unusable shots even without a stab function. They were all obvious autofocus failures so were immediately reshot. It went all day on one set of batteries as well.

Curiously, there is a high contrast monochrome video mode wherein you can still take stills. That worked quite well but was more prone to blurring. I'm assuming it ignores the ISO setting but may be worth a bit more investigation and experimentation. Also need to check whether the shots are at video or photo res...

 

I'm always baffled when the staff ask whether your camera can take video. I always reply in the negative but when every phone has 4k video capability it makes this rule seem a bit obsolete.

 

I wonder what their response would be if one said 'Only if I turn this dial to video'!!!!
On my most recent visit I was told I was not allowed to take my glasses cases in - which was inconvenient as I wear different types for different things!!!
And just as well I took two cameras as my main one decided it did not like the two memory cards I had with me!

 

I have just booked a visit to Kew at the end of the month along with a request for (to start with only) a single war diary.
At no point did I recall seeing anything about booking a specific seat or even a seat with camera stand.
All I now have is confirmation of a standard visit in the document reading room.
Have I missed something obvious?

 

Hi,
Step 4 in the ordering process is when you ask for a seat with a camera stand.

There is a box at the bottom(?) with “Access needs and research requests”.

You cannot book a specific seat.

Can you edit your request ? Seem to recall in the email that they send it is mentioned.

Waiting time for a document ordered on the day of your visit seems to be 30 - 60 minutes.

Regards

Danny

 

After a few cockups they told me you need 'Please assign a seat with a heavy weight camera stand' in the comments.

You can edit your document requests up to a week or so before

 

Thanks Danny and Gary.
I see now I haven't missed a step and the only place to 'book' a camera stand is to add a written request. I was assuming that we may have been back to something akin to the old pre covid system. I'll be editing the form in a few minutes to add the camera stand desk and should have the rest of the WO numbers ready to input in the next day or so.
Oh well, fingers crossed. On my last visit they had to move me as the desk that even the desk that was supposed to have a stand didn't have one but at least they were able to relocate me on the day.

 

Just thought I would let you all know of my experiences visiting TNA last week - so arrive with rucksack jammed with enough kit to last for a 5 day stay, having spent a fortune on a small breakfast in what was previously a cheap greasy spoon cafe by Kew Station, to get asked to take out my laptop and both cameras and open them. Fine and done.

Got 44 files copied within the hours allocated, why oh why have they cut off ordering at 3.30pm! And hardly any staff about, TNA staff covering the security posts, and all in mufti, no uniforms seen at all.

Wednesday I found out how expensive the cafe had become, I refuse to call it a restaurant - £7 for coffee and a sausage sandwich! They also need to bring back the tea bar on the 1st floor soon, as well as the coffee bar opposite the shop.

Anyhow managed to get an extra 18 documents ordered on top of the 12 done in advance - so a good day indeed.

Thursday decided to visit the Costa on the walk over Kew Bridge, and as I had ordered a medium drink I got my sausage roll for £2, and as I had enough coffee beans on my Costa card, the coffee was free! Result, and then getting through security into the reading rooms I get told I have to empty the batteries out from the box they were contained in - so inconsistent as no mention of this on the previous 2 days. However I managed to get 52 documents copied so happy. Lovely dinner too - mixed grill cooked to perfection in the Premier Inn, delivered by the Chef who even came back to ask if everything was alright.

Friday it rained so after my continental breakfast at the hotel (£7.50) got a cab to TNA, using their app in the foyer. Told me the registration number of the cab and how long it would be - At TNA now only asked for laptop to come out and one camera case - so no consistency on the front desk, unless they recognised me for the fine upstanding member of society I am now!
Another 16 documents copied, with some interesting information found too.

Saturday being my last day, I was a bit tired, having been woken up at 3am by giggling girls outside my door, but I had no problems in getting into the Archives or reading room. Only had 12 documents ordered and had finished copying them by about 12.30, so decided to download them and then make my way back to railway station. Decided to not wait for my booked train so albeit an extra (extortionate) cost for my train ticket, I got home by 5pm.

So in 5 days, 154 files copied, 14,162 photographs taken, and a bit of money spent. All in all not a bad trip.

My advice to anyone visiting is to order up front, in my case I ordered 3 bulk orders, two of 40 documents, one of 20 (minimum) - remember they have to be from the same series though, but not consecutive, or if ordering 12 then can be from anywhere. It was taking at least an hour from order to locker for most of my extra documents as well, so unless you can get a fair few orders in prior to 3.30pm you might be out of luck. Best thing is to plan well in advance and I am glad I had for all 5 days.

What did also surprise me was the very few people that were there, I think on the Friday there were no more than 30 people in the reading rooms on the 1st floor.

Now to work out when I can go again (or allowed to of course!)

Andy

 

Did you have any 'problems' ordering additional documents as a 'bulk-orderer'?

On both occasions I've asked for a desk to be assigned so I can order more documents (with an eye on the hour it takes plus the 3:30pm cut off time on a Thursday when it is open to 7pm) I've asked if I've finished with my bulk order.

The first time I was honest and said not yet - the assistant steadfastly refused to allocate a desk so I couldn't order any more docs. The second time, having wisened up, I said yes (even though I hadn't quite) but even then she tried to get me to move to the new desk assigned quoting Covid regulations. When I pointed out it was surely worse if I kept moving around she asked her manager who said I could stay put.

The thing is a bit of a charade - no-one ever comes to check who is sitting in what seat and they only come to collect the bulk order docs at the end of the day - just civil service adherence to some arbitrary rules someone has come up with.

 

Andy,

thank you indeed for this detailed report. The number of documents and photos given, I guess you had no problems in getting a proper camera stand.
Your report makes me think of a possibility to plan my next stay at Kew, provided the Covid situation is kept at bay. Have not been there since we met. Maybe we'll meet there again. I'll pay the beverages ...


Aixman

 

Love the breakfast detail Andy.

I'm actually quite pleased with the new caterers. Went today, 10-2, all went swimmingly. If anyone noted a bloke having a work Zoom call sitting outside around 1130-1215, that was me.

All the best

Andreas

 

In answer to the questions I did not have any problems in getting allocated a seat after finishing my bulk order, I had managed to get through them quite quickly as they were small (ish) files. I was allocated a seat number but went nowhere near it, just stayed where I was as no point in moving from where camera was set up. For those who get a bulk order on the 1st floor, one is put into a space near to table 34, where there are 6 double tables, all with proper camera stands, and plenty of space to spread out. I can normally tell if I am going to finish the ordered documents in good time to order some more, but if not I just take my time, especially if I am staying up there, as it means I get to the hotel in daylight!

For my two 'normal' days I had Seat 34E by the window, again with a proper camera stand. I had put in the 'other' box when ordering 'Sturdy Camera Stand required'.... as advised by others on here. It obviously worked. I was wading through some extra documents on the Thursday and they brought out the following days bulk orders, one of which was mine! When I went over and told them I had finished my bulk order for that day I asked if I could start on the following days. The member of staff just went 'I'll collect today's bulk order first'! So I got some of the next days copied before I decided (or rather my back did) that I'd had enough for the day.

Always have to sort out breakfast, most important meal of the day!

Andy

 

A couple of daft questions for the Kew researchers as I have managed to sort out a trip to Kew next week.

1. I’ve pre-ordered my 12 documents for the day - can you still order more on the day like the good old days?
2. I’ve checked the ULEZ and my car appears not to fall under those restrictions. Have I missed something, as my reading of some of the comments above was that all cars were subject to ULEZ. Or do some of you drive diesel engined vehicles or tanks?
3. How should I contain my excitement at getting the chance to get back there after COVID?

Regards

Tom

 

I had a three day spell at Kew a month ago. First time since COVID. Basically went well. Allocated a camera stand desk I did not request or need. To be avoided as desk space was less and I banged my head on the stand several times. Solution is just to move desks. You might pick one that someone else arrives at but just shift. Apart from the advance order you can order more files subject to 3 outstanding orders being sourced at a time. I think the rules limit you to 24 files in a day (advance plus ordered on the day but I suspect they do not trigger that). For food I get meal deal at Tesco at Kew Gardens station. £3 with Club card.

 

Tom
We have a ULEZ exempt car and drove into the Highbury Fields lslington area with no problems about 6 weeks ago. We didn’t pre register the vehicle or anything like that (unlike the congestion charge which you must do ) so provided your vehicle comes up as exempt on their web site, you are good to drive to Kew. I hope you have a fruitful visit. My last one during that trip above was trouble free.
Graham

 

Thanks both, I’ll report back on how it goes.

Regards

Tom

 

Hi Tom,

Nice to meet you in Salerno.

As mentioned you can order documents over and above your twelve pre-ordered. The only thing I've noticed is it did take longer than before for the documents to arrive (45mins - one hour) although this seems to be getting better. also the ordering time has been reduced from 9:30am (irrelevant at the moment as they don't open till 9:30am) to 3:30pm. The latter applies even if you are there on a Tuesday/Thursday.

Regards,
Gary.

 

This question isn't so much about the institution or workings of the National Archives, but it fits the thread title. For some time now, I've been trawling 'war' diaries for the 1948-51 period, looking for details of unit locations and movements in Hong Kong and Malaya.

Obviously, I started with those of the units themselves and moved up to the brigade diaries and district/divisional diaries, and I'm now looking at the theatre diaries for Far East Land Forces. The paper trail during this is hugely varied in terms of both quantity and quality. Across the board, they become weaker beginning in 1950 when the format and requirements were altered.

I have studied the main HQ 'G' diaries at both divisional and theatre level, but now I'm left with a 'lucky' dip of what survives of the various FARELF GHQ files.

Looking at only the most promising options, which of the following do you think is mostly likely to include detailed location data for units under command?

• 2nd Echelon HQ
• Royal Sigs HQ
• AG (Adjutant General)
• GSI (Intelligence)
• G (Training)
• Q Branch
• Q (Mov)
• Survey
• Supplies & Transportation
• Medical
• Ordinance
• REME
• Pay
• Education
• Provost

 

Hi Gary,

Likewise, it was great to finally meet up with you and all the other "Italian team" in Salerno. I'm trying to find time to go through the photos I took and make notes of where they were taken and what they show. I'll hopefully get a chance to do that next week and will then share.

Thanks for reminding me that opening time at Kew has been pushed back to 0930, last time I ended up sitting in the car park round the corner with a coffee and a long face!

I'm hoping to get out on another of Frank's tours either later this year or next spring so may see you again out there.

All the best,

Tom

 

When pre-ordering a bulk quantity of 20 files, what is the definition of 'same series', please.

Regards
Alan