Mystery plaque dumped in Hornchurch, Essex

There is a service record for 14691 Thomas William King 4th Middlesex, on Ancestry. Another pre-war (October 1913) enlist. Parents given as Thomas and Maggie, 8 Derby Road, Upper Edmonton, and 3 brothers.

Read some more from the service record.

Enlisted in 4th Middlesex on 24 October 1913, was currently serving in 6th Middlesex Regiment Special Reserves. Age 18 + 29 days. Born Holborn. Occupation Factory Hand (Oil Cloth Factory) - another place to look up!

Embarked 26 August 1914. Missing, Regarded for official purpose as having died on or since 8 October 1914

Family: Father Thomas, mother Maggie. Siblings: Harry(21), Richard (18), Edna (14), Frederick (11), Sydney (8) - ages as at 1919

Address 8 Derby Road, Montague Road, Edmonton.

 

Earlier I tried to look up Thomas and Maggie King on the 1901 census, but had no luck

 

Evenin' all.
Ok that's my Police impression over!

This the 1st of the new 'individual' files:

Charles Bird
46 hits on CWGC, WW1. 33 for Bird, Charles or C. Started to narrow down possibles but no definite ‘hits’ yet. (Mike L, 5/3/10)
Name:BIRD, CHARLES EDWARD
Initials:C E
Nationality:United Kingdom
Rank:Rifleman
Regiment/Service:London Regiment (Queen Victoria's Rifles)
Unit Text:1st/9th Bn.
Age:20
Date of Death:25/09/1916
Service No:5682
Additional information: Son of the late Walter Bird and of E. L. Bird (Stepmother), of 19, Aberdeen Road, Upper Edmonton, London.
Casualty Type:Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference:Pier and Face 9 C.
Memorial:THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
From Geoff501, 3/3/10.
Needs to be checked further due to possible others (see above). (Mike L 5/3/10)

CWGC WW1 listings for: Bird, C.
57 listings: starting with Charles and trying to narrow down by Regt/address.
1. Bird, Charles. Bedfordshire Regt. No address.
2. Bird, Charles. Lt, Royal Field Artillery. Shoeburyness, Essex.
3. Bird, Charles. Suffolk Regt. Mile End, London.
4. Bird, C. Royal Horse Artillery. No address.
5. Bird, C. D. London Regt, Prince of Wales Own Civil Service Rifles. Stoke Newington, London.
6. Bird, Charles Edward. London Regt (Queen Victoria’s Rifles). Upper Edmonton, London.
7. Bird, Charles Edwin. 2nd Lt The Essex Regt. NOK address India.
8. Bird, Charles Henry. The Rifle Brigade. Bromley, Bow, London.
9. Bird, Charles James. London Regt, Prince of Wales Own Civil Service Rifles. Hammersmith, London.
10. Bird, Charles Josiah. Duke Of Cornwall’s Light Infantry. Camberwell, London.
11. Bird, Charles William. Royal Engineers. Waltham Abbey, Essex.
12. Bird, Charles William. Queen’s Own (Royal West Kent Regt.) Kilburn, London.
13. Bird, C. W. Mercantile Marine Reserve. No address but buried Manor Park, London.


Anyone spot any errors or further info I haven't listed?

Mike

 

Hmmm..... Just re-reading that post I am not totally happy I haven't missed something so I am going to go through all 17 pages of this thread again and double check all info for each of the 17 names.
So to quote Captain Oates 'I am just going outside. I might be some time'.

I will pop back every so often to see if anything new crops up.

Mike

 

Earlier I tried to look up Thomas and Maggie King on the 1901 census, but had no luck
Same here... very odd, tried all the living family members. I'm going outside with Captain Oates and a packet of Woodbines....I might be some time.

 

LOL! Nice one Geoff.
I am working my way through the posts, nearly there now, only last couple of pages to go.
I have never had so many windows open at one time on a computer and the old laptop I am working on was starting to wheeze a bit (together with ongoing router problems) so I had to shut down completely after cleaning up all the crap you accumulate after a few days on the web.
Hope it will run a bit better now. I don't think my eyes have suffered as much since I worked long hours as a CAD Technician a few years ago!

Be back soon.

Mike

 

Ok, updated the 17 'individual' files as best I can - basically just cut and pasted any relavent content to that name.
They are in a very 'raw' state at the moment and I will try to tidy them up over the next day or so as I should be at home most of the time.
This process has been very useful for me to try and keep an 'overview' of all the terrific research carried out on this thread. Thanks to everyone who has had an input.
What is starting to worry me is that if I have a major 'tits-up' computer problem is this information recoverable without hours of back-tracking?
What I am wondering about is:
Is there a 'host' site somewhere where the 17 files could be stored and freely accessed by WW2talk members as well as researchers being able to update files, or possibly update through a 'moderator' - NOT a ww2talk mod but a site specific mod?
Does such a facility exist?

All ideas welcome.

Mike

 

Same here... very odd, tried all the living family members. I'm going outside with Captain Oates and a packet of Woodbines....I might be some time.

-tmm-, the Woodbines did the trick. Attached two sections from the service record. Although his mother was knows as 'Maggie' (it's given in a few places), her real names is on one of these pages. It's either S.W. King, of J. W. King. Might explain the census problem, I've not looked yet.

 

Thanks Geoff and Chris,
Have added to King's file. I really must update these files as soon as info appears or I will have to go through the whole lot again as I did last night (yawn!).
The woodbines worked for me too Geoff!

Mike

 

Just had a thought (unusual for me).
If I saved the 17 individual files into a folder I could email it to a couple of regular contributors (Geoff, Pete, Chris?).
That way if I had a computer problem they wouldn't be lost and any recipient could also easily refer to the content for any given name.
I would prefer to remain as collator overall, and deal with updating the files but could send updated files to others occasionally as an ongoing 'back-up' system.
Any takers?
Popping out for a while - taking pics of Polish wargraves - catch you all later.

Mike

 

Mike,

The local TA unit was:

7th (Imperial Service) Battalion, Middlesex Regt.
E Company
24 Park Lane
Tottenham

Officers in 1914:
Major King
Capt Chapel
Capt Bower
Sgt Watson

I found it in the link Geoff posted.

I dont know if the Drill Hall is still there - could really do with a Spurs fan on the forum!

There is also a church in Park Lane, St.Pauls, in 1914, again, not sure if its still there as a church.

The local paper in 1914 was the Tottenham & Edmonton Herald.

And finally......gave the sports centre a ring, got the answerphone, then realised I was calling them at 1am......might have to go out again today........

Pete

 

I'm a Spurs fan!! but not the sort you want, as it's been years since I've been there

Was chatting to my Dad about this last night as he was from Edmonton and remembers bits and pieces from when he was young, but once he got older he used to go farther afield and doesnt really remember all that much about the Tottenham area - not the specifics we're looking for anyway.

Just did a quick google for St Paul's church, and it appears to still be there, as a church, but not the same one:
The present chapter in the life of St Paul’s Church began in the 1970’s, when Fr Raymond Avent was Parish Priest. The original church, a ‘Commissioners’ Gothic’ building, was demolished to make way for the present building in the mid 1970’s.


Mike, you're welcome to send the files to me for safe keeping - I'll PM you my email.

 

-tmm-, the Woodbines did the trick. Attached two sections from the service record. Although his mother was knows as 'Maggie' (it's given in a few places), her real names is on one of these pages. It's either S.W. King, of J. W. King. Might explain the census problem, I've not looked yet.

Looked like SW at first, but then I found it (I think) Actually came accross this yesterday, but dismissed it as I had assumed the mother's name would probably have been Margaret. Brother Harry matches too.

Struggling to read the father's occupation - Fitting Labourer "<something> Works" ?

Living in 4 Albert Cottage, Montague Road, Edmonton

 

Mike,

The local TA unit was:

7th (Imperial Service) Battalion, Middlesex Regt.
E Company
24 Park Lane
Tottenham

Officers in 1914:
Major King
Capt Chapel
Capt Bower
Sgt Watson

I found it in the link Geoff posted.

I dont know if the Drill Hall is still there - could really do with a Spurs fan on the forum!


Looking at Google, it looks like the TA moved from the Park Lane drill hall in 1955. Apparenly they moved to High Road. I cannot find exactly where, but I think it's between High Road and James Place at the current ATC HQ - called "TA Centre".

As far as whether the Park Lane Drill hall still exists, I cannot find any info. It doesn't look like it though, looking at google map - I am also wondering whether the road numbering is different now to then, so cannot pinpoint exactly where it must have been.

 

tmm...

The occupation is at 'Oilcloth Works'.

I think thats the second oilcloth reference now.

Anyone know what an 'oilcloth works' might be?

Pete

 

Struggling to read the father's occupation - Fitting Labourer "<something> Works" ?


Looks like 'Oilcloth Works' - see my post #161

 

tmm...

The occupation is at 'Oilcloth Works'.

I think thats the second oilcloth reference now.

Anyone know what an 'oilcloth works' might be?

Pete

Glossary of textile manufacturing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oilcloth and Oilcloth Floor Covering (Floorcloth) - Friends of Beamish (North of England Open Air Museum).

 

I think its related to flooring, seems to crop up in conjunction with linoleum.

I did look at linoleum in relation to Pegrum, there was reference to linoleum production in Waltham Abbey and Edmonton, and I wondered if that was a link to Maymyo, linoleum needing linseed oil, but I didnt get too far.

Will have a look for a linoleum works on the Edmonton / Tottenham border, Kellys might have it but the areas are on differnent pages and its very slow to move between them.

Pete

 

Pete,
I have a mate who is a Spurs fan and goes there quite often. I should be meeting him tonight (if he turns up for band practice!).
What sort of questions/research did you have in mind?
He is a young lad (20) but I have known him since he was born. Did 2 years Life Guards and is interested in this thread.

Mike

 

Looks like 'Oilcloth Works' - see my post #161


Thanks Geoff, I missed that.

Can find references of an Oilcloth Factory in Edmonton, but nothing exact - one mentioned Balham Road, but I'm not sure it ties up.