Mystery plaque dumped in Hornchurch, Essex

Discussion in 'War Cemeteries & War Memorial Research' started by Mike L, Mar 1, 2010.

  1. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Found an address for 8668 Pte. Edward Windsor, from service records, mother is Mrs Elizabeth Windsor, 23 Denny Road, Lower Edmonton. (at December 1915)
     
  2. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Thanks all for your continued interest and input.
    There is a real interest in the Legion in Hornchurch about this research, I have to hand out copies of latest findings to many members. Also local paper (Romford Recorder) has somehow heard about this and contacted us for information for an article. We just missed the deadline for inclusion in this weeks issue.
    I am in touch with the Rector of the church in Somerset which has an identical overall design plaque, waiting for him to search his records for anything that might help us in this quest.
    The Edmonton (or close area) link seems to be clarifying but IWM cannot id any memorial of this type in that area so please do not narrow searches to that area, or we might go down a misleading route. It is very easy to do.
    It's not like Who Do You Think You Are? Where everything just falls in place.
    There I go - preaching to you lot who have much more experience in this sort of thing than I do.
    But we must be certain of sources or we might end up with egg on face if we don't get it right. If you don't mind I will act as 'collator' as thread founder, but would appreciate any help/advice as this is my first thread.

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
  3. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Thanks. Thats strange. One of those mystery men. Any reason given for if discharged?

    Cause of discharge RAY whatever that means; he actually died 1976 at Southend. The Wood Green entry was a red herring
     
  4. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Mike

    If the parish council records for Beckington have been lodged with the County Records Office at Taunton let me know and I will pop down and check the records for the post-ww1 period, see if we can find the memorial donation being discussed.

    Pete
     
  5. spidge

    spidge RAAF RESEARCHER Patron

    Found an address for 8668 Pte. Edward Windsor, from service records, mother is Mrs Elizabeth Windsor, 23 Denny Road, Lower Edmonton. (at December 1915)

    I thought Edward Windsor was a good name but mother - "Elizabeth"!
     
  6. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    I thought Edward Windsor was a good name but mother - "Elizabeth"!

    That would be Elizabeth Windsor The First, married to Edward.
    It gets more confusing:unsure:
     
  7. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Blimey - never knew we were dealing with Royalty here!
    I have sent a better picture to Geoff, hope he will upload for me (cheers Geoff).
    Pete Keane is checking a possible link to the PEGRUM family - originally from......Waltham Abbey. Looks a good possibility (Thanks Pete).
    I checked the plaque for any stamps or other identifying marks - nothing other than what's on the front.
    Hope the Rector from Beckington will get back to me.
    I will try to add latest info to the file later and re-post.

    Cheers all,

    Mike
     
  8. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Latest photo, with improved lighting! You can now clearly see the 39-45 additional work.
    (Mods - can you please delete the previous photo post to save bandwith, ta)
     

    Attached Files:

    James S likes this.
  9. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    It's not like Who Do You Think You Are? Where everything just falls in place

    ....courtesy of months of work by some spotty school-leaver "researcher"! :lol:
     
  10. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    ....courtesy of months of work by some spotty school-leaver "researcher"! :lol:
    And I wonder how many celebs cases were abandoned as they could not make any progress.
     
  11. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Great news!!!!!!
    The finder of the plaque was talking to a few friends yesterday and mentioned the plaque and our research. The name Broomfield Park, Enfield was mentioned by someone. Just googled it and found this:

    Thieves steal war plaques from Broomfield Park (From Enfield Independent)

    So I think we have a great result!
    Enfield Police being contacted ASAP - will post further details later.

    Thanks all - hope we can confirm this as a great example of WW2talk/internet/enthusiastic amateurs solving a riddle and hopefully returning a War Memorial to it's rightful place.

    Mike
     
  12. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    I'm not so sure if the photo is anything to go by. 6 foot by 4 foot, looks like 6 foot is vertical so 'our' plate would be mounted sideways? And these seem to have 6 mounting points and not four. Also our plate is in full alphabetical order. It does not fit.
     
  13. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    Mike....don't be so sure - read the article closely!

    The theft of the £90,000 brass plates was discovered at the park, in Aldermans Hill, by gardener Bob Booth on Friday.


    ...and according to the accompanying picture they are six-screw fixatures....not four...

    ....and where are the OTHER three??? :mellow:

    It looks more like there's a local SPATE of this going on...and the gunmetal one has been chucked back; I'll bet the brass ones have gone to ingot now...
     
  14. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Geoff, take your point but:
    The two six-foot-by-four-foot plaques and nine smaller plates surround an alcove for wreaths that states in gold lettering: "At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember."
    The First World War names were inscribed in 1929 and the Second World War plates were added 20 years later.

    I wonder if 'our' plaque is one of the smaller ones?

    Edmonton Police Station have been advised and we are waiting for a response from them (I won't be holding my breath) but I wont hear about it until tomorrow at earliest.

    I must admit I am half hoping it isn't from here and we just crack on with research!

    Mike
     
  15. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Phylo,
    I don't know for sure it is gunmetal - the guy that found it (retired metallurgist) thought it was, but I for one wouldn't know the difference! I doubt if the average Council employee or Journalist would either.
     
  16. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    The photo does not show al the walls of the alcove, maybe the other walls have different evidence?
    Guess we wont know for sure for a few days.
     
  17. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    One more comment. Thieves use crowbars. The 'Walthamstow' plaque has been carefully removed.
     
  18. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    I must admit I am half hoping it isn't from here and we just crack on with research!

    Mike

    Carry on regardless. Best option may be to find a rellie of the WW2 men, its in living memory and someone may have clues on the origin.

    Just checked SDGW. There are two Henry/Harry Davis in Walthamstow (born or resident), 1 William King in Walthamston (resident) and two William Reads, one in Edmonton and one in Walthamstow. 52 Reads in total, a few from London districts, but those two are the closest. Nothing close on the other names.
     
  19. geoff501

    geoff501 Achtung Feind hört mit

    Humphrey Garth, G18176, L/Cpl, 7th Bn, Queens Own Royal West Kent Regt.
    Died on 27 September 1916.
    Son of Douglas and Mildred Garth of Morden, Beaconsfield, Bucks. Born Chelsea, London.
    Humphrey Garth
    3 Willougbhy Park Road
    Tottenham
    Chartered Accountant
    Enlisted R Fusiliers at Oxford, 17th March 1916, age 34 4/12
    Previous 2 years Eton College Volunteers

    Did you need to attend the college to be in the voluteers? How about contacting Eton College ?
     
  20. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member

    Yep - let's carry on shall we?
    I will add sources/credits to the file, keep the red 'needs checking' and re-post. Might take me a little while as my router is playing up.
    Geoff - what's SDGW?
     

Share This Page