Mystery plaque dumped in Hornchurch, Essex

Discussion in 'War Cemeteries & War Memorial Research' started by Mike L, Mar 1, 2010.

  1. Mike L

    Mike L Very Senior Member


    Page 11 of this thread explains that on Monday 14th June 2010 the plaque was taken to the Frederick Knight sports ground in Tottenham, North London.
    I haven't heard much from the sports ground since the plaque was returned but I believe it was re-fixed on the building and a dedication service was carried out around November that year.

  2. The Scorer

    The Scorer Active Member

    Ah, thanks - I did see that, but wondered whether there was any further news.

    My congratulations to everyone involved in the research.
  3. Shiny 9th

    Shiny 9th Member

    As a 9th Royal Sussex researcher, I lived in hope that the S.Dyer on the lower section of this plaque would prove to be one of their men who died in Burma. I have no proof to offer, either one way or the other. I do know that many of this Battalion's men came from London so it is possible. If I ever find any more information I will post here. In the meantime, just in case it was him, here is a photo of his section on Face 14 on the memorial stone in Taukkyan. Right hand side, 4th name under Privates for Royal Sussex.

    Attached Files:

    CL1 likes this.
  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Perhaps forum members could kindly check out the family line
    Service Number 6410976

    Died 16/08/1944

    Aged 34

    9th Bn.
    Royal Sussex Regiment

    Son of Thomas Herbert and Elizabeth Jane Dyer.
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Stanley Cecil Dyer
    BIRTH APRIL 1910 • London, United Kingdom
    DEATH 16 AUG 1944 • Rangoon Burma

    1911 England Census
    Name: Stanley Cicel Dyer
    Age in 1911: 1
    Estimated Birth Year: abt 1910
    Relation to Head: Son
    Gender: Male
    Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
    Civil Parish: Bermondsey
    Search Photos: Search for 'Bermondsey' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
    County/Island: London
    Country: England
    Street address: 3 Paulin Place, Paulin Street, Bermondsey S E
    Registration district: St Olave (Bermondsey)
    Registration District Number: 24
    Sub-registration district: Bermondsey
    ED, institution, or vessel: 11
    Piece: 1878
    Household Members:
    Name Age
    Thomas Albert Dyer 41
    Elizabeth Jane Dyer 39
    George Thomas Dyer 16
    Alice Sarah Dyer 15
    Sidney William Dyer 14
    Thomas Albert Dyer 13
    Leonard Charles Dyer 11
    Frederick Horace Dyer 7
    Stanley Cicel Dyer 1


    His father is Thomas Albert - wonder where CWGC found Thomas Herbert ??
  6. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Baptism Record shows birth 17 March 1910, and baptised 3 April. Father registered as Thomas ALBERT and mother Elizabeth Jane.
    His brothers baptism shows the same names; his parents married on March 7th 1894 and were registered as Thomas Albert (father George) and Elizabeth Jane Dunster (father also George, deceased) It's faint but clearly has Albert, although I can't be sure if he made a mark and it was written for him by the priest.
    In 1871 Census, he was registered simply as Albert, so I think that's fairly comprehensive that a transcription error was made on CWGC records.
    In 1939 he was living with the Thomas family in Camberwell, heavy labourer, furniture remover.
    Couldn't trace his father

    (He had a namesake, a civil servant, aboard SS Strathaird in 1959 to Australia, but that chap was born 2nd Jan 1912)

    Unconnected but I also found these two brothers, died days apart and I just wondered if they may have been in the same tank - would that have been likely?
    Lance Corporal DYER, REGINALD FRANCIS Service Number 7891607 Died 22/11/1941 Aged 27
    44th Royal Tank Regiment, R.A.C.
    Son of William Thomas Pittard Dyer and Elizabeth Dyer, of Whitehall, Bristol.
    Trooper DYER, EDWARD PERCIVAL Service Number 7906739 Died 03/12/1941 Aged 24
    44th Royal Tank Regiment, R.A.C.
    Son of William Thomas Pittard Dyer and Elizabeth Dyer, of Whitehall, Bristol.
  7. Shiny 9th

    Shiny 9th Member

    Well South East London seems to have been one of the areas many 9th Royal Sussex men came from. This might sway me against the plaque Dyer being him. I think the more likely one was one of the earlier suggestions. So probably will have to remain unsolved. Thanks for extra input.
  8. maisanyin

    maisanyin Member

    Hi I am answering your questions about Douglas Pegrum.
    He was my mother’s brother, he escaped from Japanese in Burma and made his way to England. The family have no information about what happened to him.
    I have done research into his death over Denmark.
    I would appreciate any information or photos you may have of him. I have all the information on how he died. He is still with his Lancaster as is two other crew members of LL963
  9. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery

    Apply for his service records

    Get a copy of military service records

    Service Number 1800767

    Died 16/05/1944

    103 Sqdn.
    Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve

    Son of James Arthur Pegrum and Jessie Pegrum, of Maymyo, Burma.
    Commemorated at RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL

    Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
    Number of casualties: 20275

    Cemetery/memorial reference: Panel 236.
    Lancaster I LL963 crashed in the sea off the island of Avernakø 16/5 1944

    From my photo collection Runnymede panel
    Buteman, timuk and Tricky Dicky like this.
  10. Robert-w

    Robert-w Well-Known Member

    There are people on this forum who are amazingly good at tracking such information, however they do need something to go on. Perhaps you could share more of what you have on " all the information on how he died" as this could allow them to back track.
  11. maisanyin

    maisanyin Member

    Hi I know I am a bit late. With regards to Douglas Pegrum. He was my uncle on my mothers side. I am Burmese by birth. I have been trying to trace my uncles history since he escaped from Burma and the Japanese aged 17 years of age.
    His address on enlistment into the RAF was Tottenham. He lived with a Chinese family.
    That’s all the info I have managed to get on him. Would appreciate any further information
    I live in South Yorkshire, a bit far away to call
  12. maisanyin

    maisanyin Member

    Lancaster LL963 belonged to 103 squadron based at Elsham Wolds Lincoln.
    The plane set of for Kiel Bay Denmark on 15th May 1944. It was shot down over LiLLEBAELT early hours. Four of the crew were washed ashore on four different island, FAABorg, Astrup,Drejo, Avernako.
    Three crew went down with the plane Douglas Pegrum, Claude Frederick Bush, Thomas Kitchener Wright.
    One of the propellers was caught in a fisherman’s net in 2004, and is at present on Assens Harbour. It has been made into a memorial to the crew of LL963. I have been over several times to pay my respects. The Royal Danish Coast Guard, took me out to where the lanc lays on the sea bed. There is a seclusion zone across the top and under the water on all navigation records in Denmark. I have been trying to locate the families of the rest of the crew to send them photos of where there loved ones are laid to rest.
    Have had no success as yet
    Veronica Hanson
    Harry Ree and Shiny 9th like this.
  13. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    Hi Veronica

    I see you already found this thread!

    Interesting that Doug lived in Tottenham, that seems to be the thing connecting all of the guys on the memorial.

    The memorial itself is back in situ at the sports club.

    Have you obtained his service history?

  14. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    I was interested to know why he ended up in Tottenham - during the research I did, I found that the name Pegrum originates in the Waltham Abbey / Lea Valley area. On a map you will see that the Lea Valley stretches down to Tottenham, I assumed he came to stay with family, but possibly not.

    If we have an address it may be possible to search online records, but I’m not sure that the 1941 records are available yet.

  15. Pete Keane

    Pete Keane Senior Member

    If you go back to Nov 16 2010 on this thread there is a photo of Doug - it’s not fantastic as it has text over it but I will see if I can find the original.

    it was your cousin Ian and his father involved in the search for info.
  16. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    This goes back a long way, so apologies if already known, but LL963 was on their 26th mission, and was tasked with laying sea mines.
    Don't know what the weather was like or moon stage, but laying mines (gardening) was considered less arduous than a bombing raid, despite it being extremely challenging to drop the mines at the right height and in some type of pattern It involved flying low and straight and often crews would find a flakship placed for exactly that reason on their likely flight path. It was also fairly easy to lose sight of the horizon and therefore crash into the sea.
    An experienced crew, probably given what was thought a "cushy" job, but still fraught with perils.

    For what it is worth, Kelly's body appears to have been washed ashore some 10 months later.
    No other remarks for the rest of the crew in the RAF Loss Card details.
  17. maisanyin

    maisanyin Member

    Yes I have obtained his service history from the museum that belongs to the 103 squadron Elsham Wolds. I am a member of there association. I would like further information on him if I can.
  18. maisanyin

    maisanyin Member

    Hi Kevin, four of the crew of LL963 were found on four different islands. I have been over to them all and laid wreaths on behalf of there families. The was lucky enough to be taken out to where the Lancaster lays on the sea bed, the captain allowed me to have a look on the sonar. We then placed a wreath in the water for the remaining three crew who went down with the plane. One being my uncle Douglas Pegrum.
  19. maisanyin

    maisanyin Member

    Hi Pete there seemed to be a gentleman back in 2010 who was trying to trace the family of Douglas Pegrum. The site is RootsChat. I tried to access it but no success. He said Douglas was a friend of his and he had some photos. I am hoping that this friend is still with us.but I seemed to have lost the thread. Yes I have to obtained his service history, and his enlistment papers from the MOD, bring his eldest niece. I would like a photo of the memorial. And address, I shall have to see about going down to Tottenham myself.
  20. maisanyin

    maisanyin Member

    Hi again Pete, he put down on his enlistment paper that he lived in Tottenham. But his next of kin was a Chinese gentleman as well as my grandfather in Burma. He could not give a address for Burma. My grandparents and his siblings would have been moving about trying to evade the Japanese, before being captured and interned as POW’s till end of war

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