Mystery plaque dumped in Hornchurch, Essex

Mike,

I have found another gas memorial - not a good photo, and bromleys a long way away, but put it here anyway - think these were pinched some years back.

London Wildweb

 

Pete,
I have emailed IWM Memorials and War Memorial Trust with an update on the plaque and asking for any leads they might have to Gas Works or Gas Lighting and Coke Company memorials. Unfortunately Annette at IWM has now left so will have to establish a new contact there. Wish we knew who ‘Remembrance’ – the WMT volunteer – was, could be useful.
The date of change of name from Gas Lighting etc to Tottenham Gas Works might be useful (do you have that?) but it wouldn’t help if it was some sort of club associated with the works or Ground rather than direct Gas Co employees. Bit of desperate thinking there perhaps.
Wonder if we could find a later (1918?) edition of the ‘Co-Partners’ Magazine’? Might have a fuller RoH that may tie in with CWGC and SDGW records, but again that only applies if the names were employees, not ‘other users’ of the Ground.
I will try to contact Malcolm Springthorpe this week and see if he has had any luck with his local enquiries but I am a bit tied up during the day at the moment. Very glad there is still interest in getting to the bottom of this mystery, thanks for your efforts.

Mike

 

Mike,

I will re-contact the Gas Archive tomorrow and ask if they have any copies, easier than searching NA.

I've found that the term Gas Light and Coke seems to be a generic term, then each company adds its own name at the front, generally its area of operation. The 1915 book in the link is a completely seperate company, maybe it was some sort of franchise system back then?

Pete

 

Pete,
The name 'Co-partners' Magazine' struck me too. It sounds like perhaps it was a (national?) magazine issued to employees of all the 'gas light and coke' companies that were in a 'partnership' agreement to provide services to their local area. Beckton was the major London one, presumably Tottenham was another. Perhaps your contact at the archive can shed some light on it.......get it???? gas light of course.

OK I'll get my coat.

Nothing from IWM and WMT yet except acknowledgment.

Mike

 

Is this any use? Seems to be directors minute books and wages books - which looks like only summaries and not perhaps individually named?

Is it the right place?

The National Archives | Access to Archives

 

Stone the crows (now who said that!)

The National Archives | A2A | Results

see vol 16:

Co-Partners' Magazine Vol. 17 [B12.184] LMA/4223/02/02/017 1827 - 1927

 

Bloody hell Geoff, amongst that lot I found a file ref for 'War Memorials'!
Now all I have to do is remember where it was.
Brilliant stuff Geoff, I feel another visit to Kew coming on!

Best regards,

Mike

 

Email sent to Metropolitain Archive, which is, of course, in the City, not Kew! DOH! It's been a long day.

Mike

 

I have e.mailed the Gas Archive in Warrington to see if they have any copies (if so they will look through them for us as previously) and also to identify exactly who the magazine covered (which gas companies)

Mike - whereabouts is the metropolitan archive?

I will try and pm Biker at Rootschat again - his magazine dated 1915 was volume 15, whereas 1915 in the above link is 5 , could just be a typo, but will try and check to make sure we are looking at the same books!

What was it Sherlock Holmes used to say, something about 'the games afoot'?

Pete

 

Mike

War Memorials LMA/4223/02/03/064 1921 - 1991

Pete

 

The attached is a potted history of Tottenham Gas Works. It does show that it was a franchise operation

Tottenham & District Gas Co
In 1845 Alexander Angus Croll acquired a concession from the Imperial Gas Light and Coke Co to supply coal gas to the parishes of Tottenham and Edmonton. He took over a small gasworks which had already been set up to the south of Angel Road. He formed the Tottenham and District Gas Co in 1847. Gas was in increasing demand for street lighting, domestic lighting and later for cooking. By 1861 gas mains had been laid as far away as Wood Green. The gasworks was reconstructed 1902/5. The company then began to expand. In 1913 the Enfield Gas Co was taken over, with its gasworks at Ponders End. The company took over the Waltham and Cheshunt Gas Co (1928), the Hertford Gas Co (1932), the Hoddesdon and Ware Gas Co (1932), the Hitchin Gas Co (1933), the Stevenage Gas Co (1933) and the Southgate Gas Co (1938). (the last mentioned company had a large gas works at New Southgate). The Tottenham and District Gas Co was nationalised together with the rest of the gas
industry in 1949. The local gasworks ceased production in 1972 with the introduction of natural gas from the North Sea.

Need to make sure we follow the correct franchise line - I suspect Bikers magazine could be a different franchise, hopefully there will be a similar publication for Tottenham.

These are the NA references for Tottenham:

The National Archives | Access to Archives

Pete.

 

Mike - whereabouts is the metropolitan archive?



Records and archives

With so many mergers, might explain the comment you made about this plaque being alphabetical order and one of a set of plaques. Perhaps this company merged after 1945? Hence the WW2 names.

 

I have just reviewed the NA contents, and there are items I missed first time round, the 1946 document on wartime experiences for instance!

Seems it became part of Eastern Gas Board in 1949.

Pete

 

What was it Sherlock Holmes used to say, something about 'the games afoot'?
Pete

It really is a most singular affair.

 

Hi,

the magazine in the link I posted is Volume 5 , not 15 as I mis-read, - it is the same magazine as that held in the metropolitan archive.

Pete

 

Pete/Geoff, there is a map link on the Metropolitan Archive website, Farringdon Road area I think, not too familiar with the immediate area myself but not too far away from me (where are you Geoff?). I know you are too far away Pete, what a shame.
I could get to LMA in about an hour by tube and have a look at what they have if we can narrow dwn the search files a bit. Working long hours during the week at the moment and the Archive is only open selected Saturdays.
If we think we have some good leads (no response to email yet) I will book a days leave and visit the Archive. Hope booking in is as (relatively) simple as Kew and document retrieval is as fast!

Best regards,

Mike

 

(where are you Geoff?). I know you are too far away Pete, what a shame.
Mike

Worcestershire.

 

Can you e.mail them and ask them to have a look for you?

pete

 

Sent to LMA 6th July:

Hi,
I have recently exchanged a couple of emails with the Imperial War Museum Memorials dept and the War Memorial Trust regarding a plaque found in Hornchurch (picture attached).
The plaque has been returned to The Frederick Knight Sports Ground, Tottenham where we believe it was originally displayed although there is still some uncertainty about this. The Sports Ground was formerly owned by Tottenham Gas Works and before that possibly the Tottenham Gas Light and Coke Company. We understand that there may have been as many as five memorials originally displayed on the building but following company changes, sale of premises, relocation of plaques etc the history has become rather confusing. There exists a strong possiblilty that the plaque has links to the aforementioned companies, or perhaps the sports ground and I wonder whether you would have any records that might assist in the ongoing investigation.
I understand you hold records for the companies and believe there is a file relating to war memorials, or prehaps letters relating to them. I believe there may also be some references to Rolls of Honour or war memorials in the 'Co-Partnership magazine' copies of which are included in your index.
Any information you could provide would be greatly appreciated, possibly with view to a visit to the Archive.

Best regards,


No response yet, I will let you know if I hear anything, same goes for IWM. The WMT just responded with their standard 'not on our register so not really interested' line and reference to IWM Memorials, along with some advise on researching the phsical memorial and the people named, pretty much all of which we have already done. There is one other suggestion we haven't tried - looking for the names on the local ROH - has anyone tried that? might reveal some further info.

Mike

 

Mike,

I have heard back from the Gas Archive. They have all of the magazines for the war period and have offered to scan them on to disc for us, we should have them next week, which saves a visit to the LMA at this stage.

What may be of interest is if we can get the LMA to copy the documents about the war memorials? If they wont it will probably be worth a visit just in case, but shame to go all that way for one enquiry.

Pete