Mystery plaque dumped in Hornchurch, Essex

Ok back on topic.
Sent updated copies of the 17 files to Chris (-tmm-) as a back-up.
If anyone wants copies of individual files for any or all 17 names let me know and I will email via pm.
It's really useful to take a look at these files to refine how we are getting on with the whole project.

Very best regard all,

Mike

 

Hi,
Spoken to Jane (reporter) and she will try to get something in the papers local to Tottenham/Edmonton and maybe contact Nationals. She will also be contacting Spurs as there might be a wider story there. Also could be useful if Spurs get interested - possible new SECURE home for the plaque? Hope they don't think Jane is a 'loon' (sorry Pete Keane!).
Visited Hornchurch Police this morning and got a cup of tea whilst explaining our research so far. They will be dealing with it through Tottenham or Edmonton Station. Strangely our local 'beat bobby' knows the area well, he stayed in the same Section House as Pete Keane!
And last thing, got an email from Archivist at Eton College this afternoon re HUMPHREY GARTH:

Humphrey was here from September 1895 to December 1898, in Mr. White-Thomson’s house. He won the 3rd Trials Prize (Trials are exams) for his year at Easter 1896 and obtained distinction in Trials once. He was not in any school teams. I’m sorry I can’t give you any more information that might help to identify your plaque.

Mrs. P. Hatfield, College Archivist

Think that's all for now.

Mike

 

Nice one Mike, if a national picks it up it'll certainly open up the possibility of locating the other 3 plaques, assuming that the sports club lead is 100%, which is looking more and more likely - Well done to Pete too for following that one up. Though perhaps it's just wishful thinking on my part.

 

I dont think there is a Spurs connection, from their lack of response I dont think they do either.

I've done a little work on Hotspur FC (the one that became Spurs, not the other one), and I cannot see a connection. their website has a memorial section, but none of our guys are there.

More interesting is Hotspur Cricket Club - they played on Tottenham Marshes, which is roughly the end of Angel Rd. It was this cricket club that set up the football club, and may be worth following up if other avenues are negative.

Will start chasing calls up tonight....ideally not in the early hours!

Cheers

Ps The most fristrating people yet.....try ringing British Gas and finding the right person to talk to about this, if I had hair it would have been pulled out by now.

Pete

 

Cheers for that Chris, Pete.
The Hotspur Cricket Club sounds interesting.

If you think British Gas is bad I spent a frustrating hour (about half hour on hold) with HMRC this afternoon trying to find out why I got 2 letters in same post from 2 different offices giving 2 tax codes and 2 tax references!
By end of call I had been told "teething problems on 'the system' and neither of the codes and refs were correct"!!!!!Grrrrr

Mike

 

Clarence George Knight
7 North Bank Cott.
Waltham Abbey
Engineer Storekeeper
Enlisted RGA xx December 1915, age 20

Could someone check the 1901 census for the address - interested to see if the family were there then, and fathers occupation if given.

I have heard back from the great great grandaughter of the man who built these cottages, have e.mailed her back to see if they were tied, and if so who to.

My computer now only writes in italics!

When we do work all this out, I have a long list of people to notify.

Pete.

 

Assuming this is the right one - cannot read the occupation or the street name (fyi they live at 4 not 1 as in the screenshot).

 

Occupation is House Painter I think.

 

Occupation is House Painter I think.
And looks like the right record, Abraham is the father in his service records. I think I only have a few pages, will see if there is more.

 

Guys,
Thanks so much for your continued input and research.

Having spoken to Pete Keane today I know he is continuing his research about potential original sites, sports clubs etc but is waiting for responses before posting.
There is another potential lead here that is perhaps worth looking into. There are a couple of apparent links relating to the 'Oil Cloth Factory' and perhaps Linoleum factory. It appears that PEGRUM's family (from Burma according to CWGC) and THOMAS WILLIAM KING may have a connection through this. Pete thinks there is a connection between Oil Cloth and Linoleum and we have references to both with these 2 names. Certainly needs looking into.
Can anyone check 1901 census for possible family or occupation links?

Thanks again for all you efforts. Hopefully there will be something published in Tottenham/Edmonton/Waltham Abbey local papers this week that might produce some leads, will chase Jane the reporter Thursday.

All the best, you have restored my faith in human nature.

Mike

 

tmm.....their address is 4 North Bank Terrace, not 7 as on cwgc? If so that does clear up a little mystery, as the gggd did say there were only 6 cottages in north bank terrace.

I think linoleum and oil cloth are very closely linked - I wondered if the Pegrums in Maymyo were involved in exporting oil for the manufacture of both. Annoyingly, I cannot find the reference to linoleum production in Waltham Abbey, forgot to bookmark it!

Pete

 

Pete, I cannot read what the address is on the census, but it's 'something' street - I would have assumed that 'north bank terrace' would just be a terrace of houses on a street named something different - but not knowing that that street name is, I cannot check. The numbering doesn't match though, you're right - so possibly it's a different location - 14 years have passed of course.


When looking up the Pegrum family (not with much luck I have to say) I did find a pension record for a James Arthur Pegrum who served in WW1 - he may have ended up a career soldier hence being in Burma. He was born in Houndlow in 1885. Living at New Oxford Street, London when he enlisted.

More likely, is a James Arthur Pegrum, Son of William Henry and Jane Pegrum, born at Ponders End in 1905 - however it looks like he didn't marry until 1930 (to Doris I Garside) which is too late to have a son serving in WW2 - not to mention his wife is called Jessie on CWGC, but that could be a nickname, or a second marriage.

I cannot find a birth record for a Douglas Frank Pegrum in either UK or overseas BMD. I did find a Frank Douglas J Pegrum, born Edmonton District in 1879 - could possibly be a relation.

 

tmm.....their address is 4 North Bank Terrace, not 7 as on cwgc? If so that does clear up a little mystery, as the gggd did say there were only 6 cottages in north bank terrace.


Pete,

The address is given as 7 North Bank Cott(age) in the service records

 

I think the street name in 1901 is Milton Street - which by the looks of it today is a modern(ish) housing estate

In 1891, the family were living at Quaker Lane

 

Chris (-tmm-) might be worth checking that PEGRUM name again.
He was 25 when married, could be 2nd marriage or the child could have been born before the marriage. That could make the age/date tally.

Pete, Chris, Geoff thanks again.



This time there ARE 17 poppies!

Mike

 

DOH!!!!!!

 

I found this which could be a red herring -

Trek out of Burma 1942, Evacuee List

A list of evacuees from Burma in 1942 - Lists a Mr and Mrs E Pegram + 6 children (Port Commisioners), from Maymyo to Calcutta

-Probably nothing (as most of it doesnt fit), but I thought I would post it anyway

 

Chris (-tmm-) might be worth checking that PEGRUM name again.
He was 25 when married, could be 2nd marriage or the child could have been born before the marriage. That could make the age/date tally.

Pete, Chris, Geoff thanks again.



This time there ARE 17 poppies!

Mike

Trouble is Mike, I don't have a birth record for a Douglas Pegrum, which suggests he was born overseas - I just cant find him on any overseas registers either. Don't even know how old he was. It's hard trying to peice together details when the vital details are missing :p

EDIT: also have searched using Frank/Francis as his first name, and surname as both Pegram and Pegrum, but got nothing that really stands out.

 

Hi all,
First time we have tried this but here is the 'file' on THOMAS WILLIAM KING as collated by me from all the fantastic research you have done. Apart from Chris who holds back-up copies no-one has seen this before unless you have been keeping your own crafty copies!
I am posting this as another possible way in to the Oil Cloth/Linoleum theory as PEGRUM seems to have hit the buffers for now.

William King
347 hits on CWGC, WW1 for King, William or W. Nightmare.
(Mike L 5/3/10)

1 William King in Walthamston (resident)
Geoff501 5/3/10. from SGDW.

William King - Found a few with links to Tottenham, Walthamstow and Enfield - Will take a lot of refining.
From tmm 8/3/10.

A possible for William King, another forename swap.
From SDGW
L/14691 Thomas William King 4th Middlesex. born Holborn, Midx., enlisted Mill Hill, Midx., Killed in action 8/10/1914

Details from De Ruvigny:

From Geoff501 9/3/10.

There is a service record for 14691 Thomas William King 4th Middlesex, on Ancestry. Another pre-war (October 1913) enlist. Parents given as Thomas and Maggie, 8 Derby Road, Upper Edmonton, and 3 brothers.
From Geoff501 9/3/10.

Read some more from the service record.
Enlisted in 4th Middlesex on 24 October 1913, was currently serving in 6th Middlesex Regiment Special Reserves. Age 18 + 29 days. Born Holborn.

Occupation Factory Hand (Oil Cloth Factory) - another place to look up!
Embarked 26 August 1914. Missing, Regarded for official purpose as having died on or since 8 October 1914

Family: Father Thomas, mother Maggie. Siblings: Harry(21), Richard (18), Edna (14), Frederick (11), Sydney (8) - ages as at 1919

Address 8 Derby Road, Montague Road, Edmonton.
From Geoff501 9/3/10.


From Geoff501 11/3/10.

From tmm 11/3/10.

The occupation is at 'Oilcloth Works'.
I think thats the second oilcloth reference now.
Anyone know what an 'oilcloth works' might be?
From Pete Keane 11/3/10.

I think its related to flooring, seems to crop up in conjunction with linoleum.
I did look at linoleum in relation to Pegrum, there was reference to linoleum production in Waltham Abbey and Edmonton, and I wondered if that was a link to Maymyo, linoleum needing linseed oil, but I didnt get too far.
Will have a look for a linoleum works on the Edmonton / Tottenham border, Kellys might have it but the areas are on different pages and its very slow to move between them.
From Pete Keane 11/3/10.

Can find references of an Oilcloth Factory in Edmonton, but nothing exact - one mentioned Balham Road, but I'm not sure it ties up.
From tmm 11/3/10.

Okay in Kelly’s 1914 I found under Oil Importers - British Petroleum Co Ltd, Balham Road - so I'm thinking what I came across before may have been a red herring. Unless of course they made oilcloth too.
From tmm 11/3/10.

Angel Road, Edmonton
From Pete Keane 11/3/10.

Ridley, Whitley and Co - according to Kelly’s
Edmonton - Economic history | British History Online
Quote:
Most industry is in the east of Edmonton, along Angel and Montagu roads. In Angel Road, conveniently situated between the Lea and the G.E.R., factories were built from the mid 19th century. The largest was that of Messrs. Ridley, Whitley and Co., established by 1865 at Angel Road works between the river and the New Cut. The factory, which manufactured floor-cloths, employed 900 workers in its heyday but had only 100 by 1914, shortly before its closure.

From tmm 11/3/10.


Now assuming you have read above thoroughly (and I am reasonably happy that this IS our guy) does anything spring to mind that can be further researched fairly easily?
Thats as far as my reasoning takes me (isn't that a line from the Great Escape?) Any ideas?

Best regards,

Mike - won't do the poppy thing, won't work properly for some reason.

 

Congratulations to everyone on this excellent piece of research. If it's any help, I'm certain oilcloth is simply another name for linoleum.