My Uncle Stanley Robinson Loyal Regiment Anzio

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Marita81, Aug 4, 2016.

  1. Marita81

    Marita81 New Member

    [member='Stanley Hodgson']I am looking for information about my uncle Stanley Robinson, Private Loyal Regiment 3865769 !st Battalion North Lancashire. He died on the 24th January 1944. age 25. At the first days of the Anzio Beach Head landings. I was named after him when I was Born in April of the same year. He is remembered on the 9th panel at the Cassino war graves cemetery. I have been there several times hoping to find a grave and would like to know the final days leading to his death and what happened to his body?? Is there diaries that have recorded the battle and the deaths of my uncle and his other brave mates who lost there lives. I have his medals and the scroll of Honour sent to my grandma who never believed he died and use to stand at her front door looking up the street expecting him to return. She at first got a letter from the War office missing presumed killed. Regards Stanley Hodgson
     
  2. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Hello and welcome to the forum

    http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2098385/
    ROBINSON, STANLEY
    Rank:PrivateService
    No:3865769
    Date of Death:Between 24/01/1944 and 25/01/1944
    Age:25
    Regiment/Service:The Loyal Regiment (North Lancashire) 1st Bn.
    Panel Reference: Panel 9.
    Memorial:CASSINO MEMORIAL
    Additional Information:Son of Edward Thomas Robinson and Mary Jane Robinson, of Weaste, Salford, Lancashire.


    There are three main reasons, that I can think of, why there is no known grave for your uncle.
    • There were no remains to be recovered. This is an unfortunate reality of war, resulting from explosions etc etc.
    • Remains were recovered but they could not be identified. In which case he has been buried as an 'Unknown' - Soldier of the Second World War. Info on these headstones can vary - some show a regiment if there was something to confirm this, some can have a date. (They are not recorded on the CWGC website under Cemetery details other than by number of such burials, but there is a rather painstaking method to try and locate possible plots in cemeteries from their records.) Beach Head has 295 unidentified men buried there; Cassino has 289 burials of unidentified men. Anzio War Cemetery details do not specify any burials of Unidentified.
    • His remains have yet to be found.
    The National Archives Kew hold war diaries for the regiment
    This one relates to the 1st Bn in Italy in 1944 and so would cover the dates given for his death :

    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C960836
    .This file contains paperwork created by Army Casualty Branch during WW2 and may hold some information relating to your uncle. It's possible there are witness statements as to his last known movements, it's also possible that no one could recall what happened to him. Some files contain copies of war diaries, or report forms completed by the CO. These files really are a bit of a 'lucky dip' - many of the ones I've looked at contain simple lists (which have been updated by the clerks) and very little else of value to the researcher.
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11602963
    Either file at TNA might contain information about your uncle or at the very least some details of the day and the circumstances behind his death. However you'd need to either check them in person at Kew, find someone who has them already and who is willing to share, or ask someone to copy them for you at Kew (There are a couple of members on here who regularly copy files there for a very reasonable fee.)


    Also, if no-one in the family has already done so, in order to get a better picture of his service history it would be advisable to apply for a copy of his service records.
    https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records
    In this case a copy of the CWGC certificate would be sufficient, no death cert required for release of full details.

    Good luck with your research.
     
    ClankyPencil, Owen, CL1 and 2 others like this.
  3. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    From the regimental war diary
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  4. ClankyPencil

    ClankyPencil Senior Member

    As your uncle has no known grave then i would usually recommend getting a copy of the Missing Personnel File WO 361/823 mentioned above.

    These files usually contain info, statements etc about where a soldier was last seen or the circumstances of how they became 'missing'.

    However, in my experience, where a soldier doesn't have a specific day of death recorded or its listed within a time frame like your uncle (i.e. Date of Death:Between 24/01/1944 and 25/01/1944) it usually entails that there is minimal info in the file, or what is in there is of a very vague nature.
    It can still be worth getting a copy of the file, as other snippets of info in there can help with research: things like acquittance rolls can indicate which sub-unit (i.e. Company/Platoon) he was with when he went missing. Cross referencing this with info contained within the War Diaries etc can help narrow down the area he went 'missing' in.

    Also, Anzio (and Cassino) were particularly bad battlefields for the recovery of casualties, due to its relatively 'static' nature of the fighting that happened there, and of the terrain. Fighting was ongoing there for months with areas being lost and later recovered.

    i have seen evidence in some WO files to indicate that some casualties were buried in 'known' graves, only for the grave markers to be removed/ destroyed by subsequent shelling etc and for the locations to be lost.
    Also allied casualties would be buried by the Germans behind their lines, with names passed between the stretcher-bearers on the opposing sides to indicate their fate; for various reasons these burial locations later couldn't be found when the Germans retreated and the Allies advanced into these areas.

    To give you an indication of how bad the Anzio beach-head was, 12 months after the fighting ceased there, it was still sealed off to everyone except the Graves personnel due to the amount of minefields etc located there: and there was still 95 supposedly 'known' graves that still hadn't been located.
    Documents pertaining to this can be found in post #10 in this thread
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/9403-original-italian-campaign-graves/
     
    dbf and Owen like this.
  5. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    This file also might be of interest, probably a very large file though...
    http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11603327
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  6. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Never noticed them before. Shame there isn't one on the BEF
     
  7. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Yes you have, you've just forgotten ;) - remember this thread http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/30680-unknown-believed-to-be/

    I've listed all the searcher parties files in this other post but I'd imagine since they had to wait until after liberation to look for lost graves, etc, any BEF queries would prob be included in the file marked BAOR WO 361/736.
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  8. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Stanley.

    The War Diary reported a casualty at 2335 on 24 Jan 44 when Battalion Headquarters and D Company come under shellfire. That could well be your uncle. Shellfire is particularly nasty and could well explain why his body was never found.

    He was killed on 24 Jan 44 which was in the comparatively quiet early days of the landings so I am confident that there would have been time to bury him if there were body parts left to bury. It is very common for the shrapnel from an artillery round to completely shred a body.

    Regards

    FdeP
     
  9. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Stanley, there is a map called Ardea, Italy. Scale 1/50,000, 158/ 4 (coloured).. It shows the grid reference No's that are in the War diary column, (place) that Andy has provided. Forum going through change at the moment, so i cant show the map. Will post in time.


    Thanks Andy for posting the diary's.


    Stu. ;)
     
    Drew5233 likes this.
  10. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Cant post the map, Its larger than 1mb.. In time, i do hope it gets enlarged?:(.. The map would of been use-full for Stanley.
     
  11. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    If he comes back you could always exchange email address and send it that way.
     
  12. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    dbf, lets hope he comes back. As a norm, I don't like exchanging emails without the persons permission. Strange may be.. I'd forgotten I had this map, Its from the Loyals Regimental History.
    Stu.
    CCF19032016_0011.jpg
     
  13. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Dunno what you mean Stu. The only way you can email him is if he returns and then tells you his email address himself - after reading the post. Email addresses aren't accessible to anyone except Admin anyway. Notifications of private messages/conversations, replies etc, are forwarded to the person's email account - but only if they have already set up their accounts permissions to allow it.

    If the map is slightly over the max upload limit permitted, an alternative is to crop the image into two parts, leaving a slight overlap.
     
  14. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    dbf, thanks for the explanation regarding e-mails. Everything you mention I'm already aware of. Old school manners & that. Too many unwanted phone calls etc.( Not that i get any via the forum)

    Re the maps, thanks for the advice. Laptop will be in the shop tomorrow for me to post pictures, & documents etc under 1mb. Yourselves being the mods, have stated that 1mb is the maximum. It saves ware on the server.. No problem.
    A slight overlap is not my bag. Images don't come in two parts.

    Regards
    Stu.:)
     
  15. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Stanley, please see attachment. You need to have a look at the grid reference box, top right of the map.

    Regards
    Stu.
    rsz_wo_170_1429_001originalanziomap.jpg
     
  16. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Stu.

    Love the map.

    Would you mind emailing me a copy?

    Regards

    Frank
     
  17. Stuart Avery

    Stuart Avery In my wagon & not a muleteer.

    Frank.

    On its way.

    Regards

    Stu.
     

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