[My Uncle] 312539 (871055) Neville Arthur Frank EDWARDS, RE ; 4 Para Sqn. RE, 8 Commando, Layforce ?

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Peter267, Nov 21, 2022.

  1. Peter267

    Peter267 Member

    Hello to all

    Ready at last to post my queries re my Uncle [Mothers elder brother].

    I have included two scans that I have from FMP rather than me attempt to transcribe the information it may be better for you to read and interpretate

    I served in the Army for 25 years so am used to the jargon.

    What I do know.

    His father, my maternal grandfather, was employed by the Ordnance Survey and as part of that employment he served within the Royal Engineers for a number of years prior to discharge and returning to the OS full time.

    My uncle followed the same path prior to WW2 [you see his enlistment was 1938] However during WW2 as you see he followed a slightly different path.

    He remained in the Army after WW2 and did not retire until about 1971 or 72. I remember him certainly as a Captain around 1958 serving RE in Minden Germany. He transferred to the [newly] formed Army Air Corp] just after and qualified as a Pilot and I also remember him still serving as a Major as OC Flying Wing Middle Wallop; in 1970 because I attend my Air Gunner selection course at Middle Wallop [having passed the Biggin Hill phase] and he was on the interview selection panel and left the room during my interview.

    I have a photo of him on his wedding day in 1949 as a Captain and wearing [SAS] wings above his medal ribbons.

    His name is: Neville Arthur Frank EDWARDS. He died about 15 years ago.

    Be very interested at any help as I see he served; Layforce, Commando, Parachute Sqn and at some point commissioned.

    Regards

    Peter


    NE1.jpg NE2.jpg
     
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  2. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Hi,

    You likely know that you have posted what is known as a Tracer Card. It records his RE service details as an enlisted man prior to his commission. In my experience whilst Tracer Cards are helpful they do not record all of a man’s service movements. For the full picture of his service you need to apply to U.K. MOD for his service records where the Army Form B103 will be the most helpful document.

    You ought to be able to follow his Commissioned service via a search of London Gazette. It will record his commission date and subsequent promotion dates and eventual retirement to pension.

    Steve
     
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  3. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Personal Number: 312539
    Army Number: 871055
    Rank: Corporal ; Major
    Name: Neville Arthur Frank EDWARDS
    Unit: Royal Engineers


    London Gazette : 26 May 1944
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/36529/supplement/2418/data.pdf
    CORPS OF ROYAL ENGINEERS.
    The undermentioned to be 2nd Lts.-
    8th Dec. 1943:—
    871055 Cpl. Neville Arthur Frank EDWARDS (312539).

    London Gazette : 23 November 1945
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/37361/supplement/5696/data.pdf
    CORPS OF ROYAL ENGINEERS.
    The undermentioned 2nd Lts. (War Subs. Lts.), from Emerg. Commns., to be Lts., 24th Nov. 1945, with seniority as shown: —
    Neville Arthur Frank EDWARDS (312539), 18th Nov. 1942.

    London Gazette : 13 June 1947
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/37983/supplement/2664/data.pdf
    CORPS OF ROYAL ENGINEERS.
    The undermentioned Lts. to be Capts.: —
    N. A. F. EDWARDS (312539), 18th May 1947.

    London Gazette : 8 June 1954
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/40197/supplement/3397/data.pdf
    Capt. N. A. F. EDWARDS (312539) the date of promotion, to Capt. is 21st Oct. 1947 and not as in Gazette (Supplement) dated 13th June 1947.
    Lt. (now Capt.) N. A. F. EDWARDS (312539) the seniority date as Lt is 19th May 1944 and not as in Gazette (Supplement) dated 23rd Nov. 1945.

    London Gazette : 21 October 1975
    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/46716/supplement/13171/data.pdf
    CORPS OF ROYAL ENGINEERS
    REGULAR ARMY
    Maj. N. A. F. EDWARDS (312539) retires on retired pay, 21st Oct. 1975.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022
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  4. Peter267

    Peter267 Member

    Thanks for that. I understand these two scans are tracer cards and I have not applied for his service records as:

    I am not his classed as next of kin when he died [spouse, parent, child]

    He died less than 25 years ago and I have not contact [as yet] with any of his four children [my cousins] to gain direct consent to apply for service records.

    I could just apply as a family research project but the information would be sparse to say the least.

    I think my query might have been more that we see he served he served in 8 Commando 1941; in 1/8 Bn Layforce in the ME 1941 and he served J [later] 4 Parachute Sqn 1942 / 43 and at the time of his wedding in 1949 he was a Captain wearing SAS Wings above his medal ribbons.

    Any assistance with what 8 Commando 1941, 1/8Bn Layforce in the ME 1941 and 4 Parachute Sqn 1942/43 were doing and what operations they may have been involved in plus his entitlement to SAS Wings ? Was he with Paddy Mayne or others ?
    Regards
    Peter
     
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  5. Peter267

    Peter267 Member

    My thaks to DBF for those links.
    Regards
    Peter
     
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  6. Tullybrone

    Tullybrone Senior Member

    Forum member Skip has an interest in Special Forces. He may be able to assist.

    Steve

    EDIT TO ADD

    The ever useful Wikipedia will give you an overview of the evolution of No 8 Commando into 1st Battalion Layforce and the books listed in the Reference section will give you further places to look.

    Layforce - Wikipedia
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2022
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  7. gmyles

    gmyles Senior Member

    Hi

    From a RE Order of Battle doc I found on the internet many years ago.

    512th [Army] Field Survey Coy RE In Egypt Mar 1940. Detachment served in Greece 1941. Under Tenth Army in 1942.

    Later dropped "Army". - undecipherable

    F and 4 Para Sqn RE info here

    4th Parachute Squadron RE | ParaData

    512 Fd Surv Coy were in Greece 1944. Here is the bottom of a 1944 map created for the liberation of Greece

    upload_2022-11-21_20-50-17.png

    According to my notes. In October 1944, 512 Fd Coy RE consisted of 156 Personnel and 30 vehicles and came over from Italy.

    Hope this helps

    Gus
     
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  8. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

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  9. Tony56

    Tony56 Member Patron

    Presumably you also saw that his initial attestation was with the Royal Artillery 1937?
     
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  10. gmyles

    gmyles Senior Member

    Hi

    Info about 8 Commando, 4th Special Service Battalion and B' Battalion Layforce here

    8 Commando | ͏

    I could be wrong, but it looks like your uncle was probably embedded or detached to these units to undertake surveying and provide them with them maps necessary for them to operate in North Africa.

    The fact that he was posted to 512 Field Survey Coy after his time with Layforce would support this.

    His experiences with Layforce however may explain why he choose to volunteer to join a RE Parachute Sqn.

    Hope this helps

    Gus
     
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  11. Peter267

    Peter267 Member

    My thanks to all who have taken the time to give a reply or provide a ‘look up’. It is a starting point for me at least.

    Thanks again to all, and I am sure there will be more questions along the way.

    Regards

    Peter
     
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  12. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    Hello Peter, is there any possibility that you could post the wedding day photo of your Uncle please?

    Only if you wish to of course, and by all means a close scan of the wings above your Uncle's medal ribbons (as shown in his wedding photo as you've described in your first post in the thread) would suffice. No need to show faces of the wedding party, again, unless you wished to.

    And, if that's a request too far for where you are with your research at present it will be understood.

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim.
     
  13. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    As an addition Peter, I'll endeavour to dig this book (previously mentioned in this thread) Biblio of RE books for WWII out tomorrow.

    I'm not sure which box of books I have it in but as soon as I find it I'll see if there is any reference within to your Uncle (the dedicated RE contingent within the expanding L Detachment was never very big, so I'm hopeful that if he was indeed a member - note, not an "Original" - there may be mention of him in Bill Deakins book).

    Notwithstanding that, and as per the advice from the good folks above your Uncle's service records are the way to go, if you can get the ok from your relatives.

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim.
     
  14. Peter267

    Peter267 Member

    Hi Jim,
    Sorry for delay in reply and have just seen your note in my inbox. Certainly I will scan the photo of his wedding day just need to copy it over from my back up disc onto the PC, should be later today or early evening.
    Regards
    Peter
     
  15. Peter267

    Peter267 Member

    Jim,

    Have enlarged as much as I dare to try and keep some focus. As you see this is 2 August 1949. My mother [his younger sister] is the left hand of the two at the back with large hats; she is pregnant with me and I was born 24 days later.

    Hope this may be of some help.

    Regards

    Peter


    nwedd.jpg
     
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  16. JimHerriot

    JimHerriot Ready for Anything

    Thanks for posting this up Peter. They certainly look like SAS wings, and follow the convention of the time for the wearing of wings, by those who had participated in operations, on the left breast above the medal ribbons.

    Kind regards, always,

    Jim.
     
  17. cheekyphil

    cheekyphil Junior Member

    Its because he was 1 SAS C Squadron, he served with Roy Close
     
  18. Peter267

    Peter267 Member

    Thanks for further information, Have read your message my inbox and have applied as suggested, replied also re other NA file.
    Regards
    Peter
     
  19. seaforth

    seaforth Junior Member

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