My Last Two Relatives- William and John Durling

I've tried to piece together William Durling's early military service, though with no real insight alas.

WW1: his MIC suggests he received a Silver War Badge, but I can't find one on Ancestry. The medal roll for his 1914 Star say "Discharged medically unfit 4-8-16", but doesn't elaborate on the cause; other entries repeat the same form of words without any differentiation between wounds or sickness. The SWB record would probably differentiate, if it turns up. All WW1 records agree William served with 1st Bn The Buffs.

As for his pre-WW1 service, the National Army Museum webpage locates 1st Bn in the UK from 1903; however, the 1911 Census (surely accurate in this respect) gives William as 2nd Bn not 1st. According to NAM "2nd Battalion left home service in 1900 for seven years in South Africa, followed closely by five more in Hong Kong and Singapore". Perhaps they returned in 11911 not 1912 as NAM suggests, or perhaps he was part of a draft of time-expired men returning to England for discharge?

William's regimental number, 7080 (minus the wartime L-prefix) suggests an enlistment date of mid- to late 1902, or early 1903: Paul Nixon's excellent Army Service Numbers 1881-1918 site records number 6802 enlisting in February 1902, and number 7662 in September 1903. That would make him 16 or 17 years old or thereabouts when he joined the army if he was born late 1886.

So, a possible scenario is: William joins 2nd Bn The Buffs in 1902 or so; presumably he lied about his age, which accords with the inaccurate d.o.b. estimate on the 1911 Census. I have trouble matching a standard 7-and-5-year hitch to the dates here, but that's no big deal I think. After leaving the army he joins the Leeds police force. On the outbreak of war in August 1914, William is one of the thousands of reservists who are recalled to the colours (unless policemen were exempt? In which case he must've left the police to rejoin the army, I suppose); however, his original battalion are still in India so he joins 1st Battalion and remains with them until he is medically discharged in 1916.

Cheers, Pat

 

Hi,

Police officers not exempt to recall as reservists in Aug 1914 (or Aug 1939 !).

Steve

 

One of the confusing factors on William and his lack of WW1 records is that I have found 2 (or maybe its the same man being awarded medals at different times) in the database:

All UK, WWI Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920 results for William Durling

Record
William Durling
Lance Corporal Buffs (East Kent) Regiment L/7080 British War Medal and Victory Medal

W Durling
Private Buffs (East Kent) Regiment L/7080 1914 Star

BUT added to that there is for Drews interest, another Durling in the same database:

Record
J A Durling
Lieutenant Buffs (East Kent) Regiment British War Medal and Victory Medal

J A Durling
2nd Lieutenant Buffs (East Kent) Regiment 1914-15 Star

J. A. Durling in the UK, Silver War Badge Records, 1914-1920

Name: J. A. Durling
Discharge Unit: East Kent Regiment
Regiment: Buffs (East Kent) Regiment
Rank: Lieut.
Badge Number: 341650
Piece: 3248
List Number: Piece 3248
Record Group: WO
Record Class: 329

Address given as Blackheath. London S E 3

TD

edited to add:
Apparently Williams burial location is:


Hither Green Cemetary, Verdant Lane, Hither Green, London

 

Thanks Pat and TD. Greatly appreciated - I now need to find a copy of John Durlings Death Certificate. Anyone happy to post a link up to it?

 

https://www.iwight.com/Residents/Democratic-and-Registration-Services/Registration-of-Births-Deaths-Marriages-and-Civil/Ordering-Copy-Certificates

Name: John Alfred Durling
Birth Date: 6 May 1917
Date of Registration: Oct 2001
Age at Death: 84
Registration district: Isle of Wight
Inferred County: Isle of Wight
Register Number: B78A
District and Subdistrict: 5561B
Entry Number: 250

TD

 

Hi Andrew
Just found this forum, John Alfred Durling is my father, William is my Grandfather who I knew well. How do you fit in to our family? Interesting to see all my photos on the forum! Janet

 

Your grandfather (William) was my father's uncle, my grandfather's brother. I would like to confirm my belief that William didn't serve in WW2 despite my father thinking he was at Dunkirk along with his son. Your father is the chap I'm interested in as I believe he was serving in the Royal Artillery in France 1940 prior to being captured.

Sadly my father (John Reginald Newson) passed away earlier this year so all I know is on this thread.

Look forward to hearing from you
Andy

 

Hi Andy,
Grandad William did serve in WW2, He was attested on 26 Feb 1940 at The Joint Recruiting Office No.16, Eltham SE9 Joining the Royal Engineers. I have copies of this form together with a Statement of his service. He disembarked with the BEF on 29 Mar 1940 in France. He returned to the UK Ex BEF on 1st June 1940 and was discharged" ceasing to fulfil Army Physical requirements on 30th Sept 1940. I presume he was at Dunkirk as he retuned on 1st June. He was located on 26th June, in England. Dad, John Alfred was not at Dunkirk as he was captured on 287h 1940 on the retreat at Merville. I hold Grandad's medals from both Wars, together with a lot of Newsom Papers, I have tended John and Rose Hannah's grave until this year when it was too overgrown to get to. I have a lot of paperwork for the family you might be interested in. I would love details of your family tree as mine is not very detailed. Janet

 

Thanks Janet

 

Wow...My dad always said he was in France but I didn't believe him as the numbers didn't match up. Gutted he's not here now to tell him he was right. My Dad said the family always called your grandfather 'Buff'? Due to him being in the Buffs in the First World War.

I'd love to know what unit's they were in, I'll have copies of their units war diaries (If you hadn't realised already I'm obsessed with the BEF) and could tell you where they both were in France on a day to day basis.

I already checked to see if your father completed a POW Liberation Report at the end of the war, they are held at the National Archives in London, but I couldn't find his so I'm assuming he was one of the many that didn't complete one at the end of the war.

In short do you know what Company of the Royal Engineers your Grandfather served in and what Regiment of the Royal Artillery your father served in?

Not really sure what to tell you about my family. Here's a photo of my Grandfather during WW1, he served with the RAVC and my father who was an officer in the Merchant Navy - Any family resemblance?

 

The details I have for William are not that clear to me .
Date Unit
02/03/40 710 Gen Corps
29/03/40 W397/40 Coy RE Disembarked field force
11/04/40 No 5 TBRE
11/04/40 Southport Convalescent Home
28/05/40 710 Gen Corp Joined No5 (L of C) Depot BN Ex BEF
01/06/40 Located 710 Gen Con Coy returned to UK Ex BEF
10/06/40 DBRE transferred to D Coy
26/06/40 C Coy No 3 L of C DBR3 arrived from D Coy
I hope that makes some sense to you
Not knowing your age did you ever meet William? Did the family talk of him being in the police force? I must admit the details fit him but I never heard about it . He should have been in Singapore! There are no papers at Kew to cover his service prior to WW1 they are presumed lost in the WW2 fire. Is there any other way of finding then? No trace in the library in the Buffs Museum in Canterbury.
Details of your Grandfathers, fathers and your DOB/D would be appreciated. Where is your grandfathers War grave situated?
Janet

 

I have John's War Diary he was in 364 Bty. 139th.( ARMY) Field Regiment RA
Janet

 

Unusually from a security point of view, 139 Army Field Regiment used the Arm of Service serial '139'.

This image shows a Morris-Commerical gun tractor from 139 Army Fd. Regt. marked on the reverse as 'Bei Merville Engl beute' (Near Merville, English captured) I wonder....

 

Hi Janet

My grandfather survived the war and died when I was just a few years old. Give me a few days and I'll get back to you. My Dad didn't remember your Grandfather being a Police Officer but if I remember correctly, I think he did mention him going away for a while. This may fit in with him working in Leeds (where I now live incidentally).

I'm guessing the military info you have on both men is from their service records? I have a copy of the 710 General Construction Company war diary whilst they were in France. The original was lost in the evacuation but the officers of the company have compiled a written history in its place. I'm just about to get ready for work so I'll come back with more info in a day or two.

Regards
Andy

 

I have no images on file relating to 170 General Construction Company who were GHQ troops and displayed the AoS '148' on cobalt blue with GHQ bar under. Did he return home sick in April 1940, only to be sent back to France on 28th May for a couple of days at the RE depot attached No. 5 Base Sub Area ?

In the meantime, a couple more photos showing destroyed and abandoned vehicles from 139 Army Fd. Regt.

 

It could be!! I have walked round Merville from the town statue to the station and along the canal (both ways). He described the event and explained he spoke to a French boy and asked which way the Germans had gone, they went the opposite way straight into a trap!!
love the photos. Janet

 

Hello again,
Look forward to hearing from you. If you want a good trip follow the diary from disembaration to Merville. I then followed dads journey to Stalag XXB, (I didn't know about XXA then) I then followed the Long March to Brunswick where he got a Dakota home to Berkhampstead. I havn't managed to find out where the Air Strip was yet.
Janet