My Great Granda Herbert Deacon.

Discussion in 'Searching for Someone & Military Genealogy' started by Deacs, Nov 23, 2011.

  1. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

  2. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Deacs,

    If Herbert transferred to the RAF, have you applied for his records? His army records may be included with them.

    Mark

    Hi Mark am on with that now just trying to get a death certificate for Herbert, Herbert still has a son (Uncle PomPom) so my uncle is getting intouch with him to see if he has a copy.

    Regards Michael.
     
  3. ritsonvaljos

    ritsonvaljos Senior Member

    If you could get a copy of his WW2 service details I think the papers should give an indication of his pre-WW2 military service. That would give you a definite lead on the inter-war period and also confirm his service during WW1.

    You seem to be gradually 'getting there'. It looks like it will fall into place eventually.
     
  4. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Thanks kindly to Lee here are John William Deacons records.
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

  6. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Here you go Michael

    You are looking for 1/7th and 9th Battalions.

    Here is a start. You should be able to find many further details yourself.

    The Northumberland Fusiliers in 1914-1918

    Will i be able to do the same with the war diaries i got for great granda Jonathan ?
     
  7. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

    You can search for the available diaries to download here mate:

    The National Archives | DocumentsOnline | Refine Browse Criteria

    However, as you will have noticed he served with two different Battalions and in the absence of a service record you don't know when he transferred. He is highly unlikely to be named within the Diaries and so any indication of reinforcement mentioned would be purely guesswork.

    I've had a look at 149 Infantry Brigade Diaries and it doesn't mention 1/7th Battalion. Still worth taking a look for yourself though for £3.50!

    The National Archives | DocumentsOnline | Search Results

    JB
     
  8. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Thanks for the PM prompt, Michael.

    Here is a link to the Northumberland Fusiliers in 50th (Northumbrian) Division, WWI:

    ::... 4th Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers - Regiment ...::

    It concentrates mainly on the 4th Battalion, but if you scroll down the page you will see an area for the 1/7th Battalion and a devoted website about them. I tried to access the website earlier without success; I do hope this is a temporary problem. I am sure I have visited that site before...

    I also have access to a PDF, which includes a good deal on the NF and the 1/7th Battalion; I haven't read it yet - always put it off until tomorrow - so can't vouch for the contents. It is quite a large document, so probably best to send by e-mail; if you don't mind advising your e-mail address by PM.

    Now, there are a few other sources to advise on, but I will have to leave these until later in the week - as I am out of the country for the next couple of days.

    Hope this is a good start; and of course the link Jonathan sent you: The Northumberland Fusiliers in 1914-1918 is a very good one!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
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  9. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Hi Steve thanks for the links i have just had a browse through the nominal roll for the 4th battalion and there is John William Deacon's name excellent what a hit brilliant.

    Kind Regards Michael.
     
  10. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    E-mail sent, Michael. I hope it's a case of 'Happy reading'.

    As you know your great uncle - 1/7th Northumberland Fusiliers - and my great granddad - 4th Northumberland Fusiliers - both served in the same Division - 50 Div. Based on family information it also appears that my wife's grandfather served with the 4th East Yorkshire Regiment, also with 50 Div. He was taken POW and survived the war.

    Not only that, although from Hull, and with a Yorkshire Battalion and Brigade, it also looks my wife's grandfather undertook his training - in 1914/15 - in the small Northumberland Village I grew up in. My wife and her family - all Yorkshire born and bred - arrived there in 1972, not knowing that her grandfather (being her mother's father) had been there 57 years earlier. How about that for a small world?!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  11. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

    Nice work on the nominal roll Steve. :)

    Is it dated? Is it a roll naming those men who enlisted with 1/7th NF's or was it taken at a specific point e.g the armistice?

    As his medal roll shows John served with both 1/7th and 9th Battalions of the NF's. From Chris Baker's site here is a potted history of each Battalion.

    1/7th Battalion
    August 1914 : in Alnwick. Part of Northumberland Brigade, Northumbrian Division.
    Record same as 1/4th Battalion up to February 1918. (149th Brigade, 50th (Northumbrian) Division, in France.)
    12 February 1918 : transferred to 42nd (East Lancashire) Division and converted to Pioneer Battalion.

    9th (Service) Battalion
    Formed at Newcastle in September 1914 as part of K2 and attached to 52nd Brigade, 17th (Northern) Division.
    Landed in France in July 1915.
    August 1917 : transferred to 103rd Brigade, 34th Division.
    25 September 1917 : absorbed the 2/1st Northumberland Yeomanry and became the 9th (Northumberland Hussars Yeomanry) Bn.
    26 May 1918 : transferred to 183rd Brigade, 61st (2nd South Midland) Division.

    Hopefully the nominal record will show that he served for the duration of the conflict with 1/7th otherwise you have the problem of when did he transfer? after a week?, a month?, 6 months?
     
  12. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Jonathan i have been intouch with John's daughter Marjorie tonight and due to the conversation that we had together the other week she has made an appointment with Leeds History group to see if she can find anything from the newspapers on John, Herbert and Sidney, she says Sidney was also in the army but doesn't no what in.
    Marjorie has also a couple of photos of the brothers in their uniforms and she is going to send them onto me. so when i recieve them i will post them.

    Michael.
     
  13. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Nice work on the nominal roll Steve. :)

    Is it dated? Is it a roll naming those men who enlisted with 1/7th NF's or was it taken at a specific point e.g the armistice?

    As his medal roll shows John served with both 1/7th and 9th Battalions of the NF's. From Chris Baker's site here is a potted history of each Battalion.

    1/7th Battalion
    August 1914 : in Alnwick. Part of Northumberland Brigade, Northumbrian Division.
    Record same as 1/4th Battalion up to February 1918. (149th Brigade, 50th (Northumbrian) Division, in France.)
    12 February 1918 : transferred to 42nd (East Lancashire) Division and converted to Pioneer Battalion.

    9th (Service) Battalion
    Formed at Newcastle in September 1914 as part of K2 and attached to 52nd Brigade, 17th (Northern) Division.
    Landed in France in July 1915.
    August 1917 : transferred to 103rd Brigade, 34th Division.
    25 September 1917 : absorbed the 2/1st Northumberland Yeomanry and became the 9th (Northumberland Hussars Yeomanry) Bn.
    26 May 1918 : transferred to 183rd Brigade, 61st (2nd South Midland) Division.

    Hopefully the nominal record will show that he served for the duration of the conflict with 1/7th otherwise you have the problem of when did he transfer? after a week?, a month?, 6 months?

    Jonathan i have been intouch with John's daughter Marjorie tonight and due to the conversation that we had together the other week she has made an appointment with Leeds History group to see if she can find anything from the newspapers on John, Herbert and Sidney, she says Sidney was also in the army but doesn't no what in.
    Marjorie has also a couple of photos of the brothers in their uniforms and she is going to send them onto me. so when i recieve them i will post them.

    Michael.

    Hello Jonathan/Michael,

    Apologies for the delay in responding; I've been out of the UK for a few days.

    I don't have any information about the date of the Nominal Roll, but I believe it will list all troops known to have served in the Battalion during WWI i.e. not date specific. I think Michael will need the service records to get specific dates.

    Michael - do you have this in hand?

    Regarding Sidney Deacon, did you notice that the soldier listed after JW Deacon was an SC Deacon? Did Sidney have a middle name and did it begin with a 'C'??

    It would be amazing if this was him!

    Did you manage to access this link: www.fairmile.fsbusiness.co.uk/7thn_f.htm I still can't get in!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  14. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Hello Jonathan/Michael,

    Apologies for the delay in responding; I've been out of the UK for a few days.

    I don't have any information about the date of the Nominal Roll, but I believe it will list all troops known to have served in the Battalion during WWI i.e. not date specific. I think Michael will need the service records to get specific dates.

    Michael - do you have this in hand?

    Regarding Sidney Deacon, did you notice that the soldier listed after JW Deacon was an SC Deacon? Did Sidney have a middle name and did it begin with a 'C'??

    It would be amazing if this was him!

    Did you manage to access this link: www.fairmile.fsbusiness.co.uk/7thn_f.htm I still can't get in!

    Best,

    Steve.

    Hi Steve sorry forgot you were away,
    I did notice the SC Deacon and got excited myself is it him, well i rang John's daughter the other night and unfortunately Sidney had no middle name but she does have a photo of him which she is going to e-mail me and that may tell us what regiment Sid was in.
    No the web link doesn't work for me either.
    Steve what will i need to do to get there service records ?

    Regards Michael.
     
  15. BFBSM

    BFBSM Very Senior Member

    Deacs,

    I have just had a quick look at the Ancestry database of service records, and found one for a Sidney Deacon, resident at 10 Recreation St, Tipmoorside, Holbeck, and at 5 Recreation St, Top Moor Side, Holbeck. The latter with his aunt Sarah Anne Rickerby(?). Could this be he?

    Mark
     
  16. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Deacs,

    I have just had a quick look at the Ancestry database of service records, and found one for a Sidney Deacon, resident at 10 Recreation St, Tipmoorside, Holbeck, and at 5 Recreation St, Top Moor Side, Holbeck. The latter with his aunt Sarah Anne Rickerby(?). Could this be he?

    Mark

    Hi Mark Holbeck is definately the place where Sidney went to live after his mam and dad died by what Marjorie told me the other night, but Sidney went to live with his girlfriends family, i may have to get back intouch with Marjorie to find out where ?

    Regards Michael.
     
  17. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Hello Michael,

    Looks like Mark beat me to the answer, but WWI service records are available from, either, TNA (WO 363, the so-called 'Burnt Documents') or online through Ancestry. The former is in microfilm form.

    The majority of WWI service records for ranks other than officers were destroyed during a 1940 air raid; less than 40% survived. If service records are missing you can sometimes put together some information from pension, medal, etc. records.

    You may wish to invest in a short cut to Sidney's service by applying for his service records, as well as the others?!?!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  18. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Hello Michael,

    Looks like Mark beat me to the answer, but WWI service records are available from, either, TNA (WO 363, the so-called 'Burnt Documents') or online through Ancestry. The former is in microfilm form.

    The majority of WWI service records for ranks other than officers were destroyed during a 1940 air raid; less than 40% survived. If service records are missing you can sometimes put together some information from pension, medal, etc. records.

    You may wish to invest in a short cut to Sidney's service by applying for his service records, as well as the others?!?!

    Best,

    Steve.

    Thanks Jonathan, Steve and Mark.
    I only asked at first what uniform Great Granda was wearing now i am finding out family i didn't even no i had !
    And speaking to family i didn't no brilliant i can tell you what a great search this is becoming.

    Regards Michael.
     
  19. Jonathan Ball

    Jonathan Ball It's a way of life.

    The majority of WWI service records for ranks other than officers were destroyed during a 1940 air raid; less than 40% survived. If service records are missing you can sometimes put together some information from pension, medal, etc. records.

    Michael

    Steve is entirely correct with the above. The following explains what is available to search..

    The National Archives | Exhibitions & Learning online | First World War | Service records

    Now the following is a link you might find useful and if you follow it you can search all you want..;)

    http://landing.ancestry.co.uk/popularmedia/hs1.aspx?o_iid=48737&o_lid=48737&o_sch=Web+Property
     
  20. Deacs

    Deacs Well i am from Cumbria.

    Deacs,

    I have just had a quick look at the Ancestry database of service records, and found one for a Sidney Deacon, resident at 10 Recreation St, Tipmoorside, Holbeck, and at 5 Recreation St, Top Moor Side, Holbeck. The latter with his aunt Sarah Anne Rickerby(?). Could this be he?

    Mark

    Mark have had a talk with Marjorie and she doesn't no of an aunt S.A Rickerby and all she can remember is it was definately Holbeck that Sidney went to live.

    Regards Michael.
     

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