Murders during the war

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by paulyb102, Jan 11, 2005.

  1. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Thought I'd bump this thread up because we moan about crime levels today and look back at the 1940s through rose coloured glasses.
    I remember reading that crime levels shot up from peace-time levels during WW2.
    An aspect of the war we tend to forget.
     
  2. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    The black, hidden graves for the executed mentioned by Kiwi intrigue me, anyone come across any pictures or know what is written on the markers? I can find Slovik's US grave but nothing on the original stones?
    Any chance anyone knows which issue of 'After the Battle' they might have cropped up in?
     
  3. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  4. Gage

    Gage The Battle of Barking Creek MOD

    A very interesting thread. Would like to know the details for the WAAF murders in WWII.
     
  5. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

  6. Marina

    Marina Senior Member

  7. Kiwiwriter

    Kiwiwriter Very Senior Member

    The black, hidden graves for the executed mentioned by Kiwi intrigue me, anyone come across any pictures or know what is written on the markers? I can find Slovik's US grave but nothing on the original stones?
    Any chance anyone knows which issue of 'After the Battle' they might have cropped up in?

    They are discussed at length in William Bradford Huie's 1953 book "The Execution of Private Slovik." He needed permission from Washington to visit those graves.

    They are further discussed in an ATB issue, No. 35 or 36, I think, that discusses the whole Slovik case. That plot is not shown on maps of the cemetery, and visitors were not allowed in at the time of that issue.

    Slovik's body was sent home and is buried in a family plot in Michigan...but not before it got lost at Detroit Airport, which figures.

    My understanding is that the flat black stones only have ASNs, but I'm not sure. There is one cross standing up for the whole section. I once heard that the Battle Monuments Commission exhumed the various coffins and shipped them home, but I'm not sure if that's true.

    Anyone living or touring near Oise-Aisne Cemetery can find out. Buried in the plots of honored dead is Joyce Kilmer, author of "Trees."
     
  8. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Good link VP.
    Quote from it
    83 percent of the men executed in Europe, North Africa and the Mediterranean Theaters of Operation were African-Americans, in an Army that was only 8.5 percent black.


    On GWF someone said some of the men in the dishonoured plot were originally buried at Brookwood US Cemetery, Surrey.
     
  9. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    [​IMG]

    a picture of Slovik on a rather obscure site (Danish).
    It's probalby taken after his execution.
     
  10. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

  11. Marina

    Marina Senior Member

    Pretty horrible - not so very different from today. The youths who kicked the man to death and got off lightly rings a bell!
    Marina
     
  12. Owen

    Owen -- --- -.. MOD

    Just read about a murder committed at Chiseldon camp.
    Had a Google and here's some info for you.
    sheptonm
    Pte. Harold Smith had gone AWOL (absent without leave) in London in January 1943 and with another young soldier was staying in a hotel enjoying the town until their financial recourses dried up. He then returned to Chisledon Camp near Swindon to find his own unit had been posted elsewhere. He found a loaded pistol and then got into an altercation with Pte. Harry Jenkins whom he shot dead. He also fired at another soldier before escaping back to London, where he was arrested by a British policeman. He was handed over to American authorities and was court martialled at Bristol on the 12th of March 1943. He made a full statement admitting his guilt and was duly hanged on the 25th of June, 1943 by Tom Pierrepoint.

    Anyone know anymore about the victim?
    Pvt Harry Jenkins 116th Infantry, he had two serious bullet wounds to the stomach, one less serious leg wound. He was operated on at Swindon's Victoria Hospital (where I was born)but died later the next day.
     
  13. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Old Hickory Recon

    Slovik was the only American shot for desertion since the Civil War, and his case became a celebrated book and TV movie.

    Slovik got what he deserved. I read about his actions, both before and during the war. He was a skank and never anything but a burden on society.
     
  14. von Poop

    von Poop Adaministrator Admin

    Marcel Petiot, Parisian Serial killer who tried to claim 'resistance work' as a defence:
    All about Dr. Marcel Petiot by Michael Newton
    a telegram arrived from Paris police headquarters. It read: “Order from German authorities. Arrest Petiot. Dangerous lunatic.”


    Anyone have any more on the RAF killer suggested in post #9?
     
  15. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Just out of interest it was normal procedure for the British Army for those convicted at home of murder for them to be discharged from the army on the morning of their excecution thereby preventing them from receiving a war grave status - however this was not always carried out in every case

    Chris
     
  16. marcus69x

    marcus69x I love WW2 meah!!!

    I don't like the idea of our 'heroes' acting in this way. It's the type of thing you'd expect to hear from the Nazis but not our brave lads. I suppose if a person is that way inclined though, then just because they put on an allied uniform it doesn't make them a better person all of a sudden. Very sad.
     
  17. chrisharley9

    chrisharley9 Senior Member

    Marcus

    they are only a reflection of the society that they came from - add to that the pressures of a war & being cut from female company

    Chris
     
  18. I found these ...... if you Google both names you'll find quite a bit ... I just posted the not so graphic ones !!

    Incidentally years later, flying with Ralph Fisher in BEA it transpired we were club members at the same time. A drinking friend of his at the club was Neville Heath, also ex RAF. One night, walking back to his hotel room Ralph fell and damaged his nose producing a nosebleed. The following day he had to put his jacket and trousers in for dry cleaning. A few days later the police interviewed him concerning a murder, as initially he was a suspect. After another murder, Neville Heath was arrested and found guilty of being a mass murderer of women — the last a WREN in Bournemouth.

    BBC - WW2 People's War - MY AIRCREW EXPERIENCES IN THE R.A.F. FROM NOVEMBER 1940 UNTIL APRIL 1946/ continued

    And then there was Gordon Frederick Cummins

    The Blackout Ripper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Annie
     
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  19. soren1941

    soren1941 Living in Ypres

    I don't like the idea of our 'heroes' acting in this way. It's the type of thing you'd expect to hear from the Nazis but not our brave lads. I suppose if a person is that way inclined though, then just because they put on an allied uniform it doesn't make them a better person all of a sudden. Very sad.


    Not too distantly related, but the Kray twins were called up for National Service ( Royal Fusiliers I think ). So it goes to show that all sorts can be in the Army at anytime.

    Most recently there was the case of a soldier who served with distinction in the Iraq war but found quilty of a random murder when he was a young lad. So perhaps sometimes the bravery and the dark side of human nature are not too far apart
     
  20. soren1941

    soren1941 Living in Ypres

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