Mules

Discussion in 'Italy' started by chrisgrove, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. idler

    idler GeneralList

    Not inspired by this thread - just pure luck - I finally acquired this:
    IMG_20190927_438.jpg

    Unfortunately, the publisher DG&P has ceased trading fairly recently. The British Mule Society who 'commissioned' it may well have a pallet or two of them stashed somewhere but I had no response from them to an enquiry a while back.
     
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  2. minden1759

    minden1759 Senior Member

    Idler.

    Anything inside on the use of mules in Italy?

    Frank
     
  3. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Idler

    Anything inside re parachuting mules into Burma and how the technique was developed?
     
  4. idler

    idler GeneralList

    There's about 30 pages specifically on Sicily and Italy.
     
  5. Charley Fortnum

    Charley Fortnum Dreaming of Red Eagles

    Is it anthologised from their journal?

    And, to add to the list, does it have anything about Cassino or 4th Indian?

    Edit: sorry, I see now that you've said there's an Italy section.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  6. Uncle Target

    Uncle Target Mist over Dartmoor

    Mules in Northern Italy with 67th Field Regt seem to have been used by Indian Muleteers.
    I thought I had a photo of them with their packs but they are not close enough to see anything useful. Sorry!
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
  7. chrisgrove

    chrisgrove Senior Member

    Hi Idler
    Talk about going round in circles. That looks like a properly bound version of the spiral bound book that I have that I mentioned in the very first post in this thread! Interesting that so many people are keen on mules!
    Chris
     
  8. idler

    idler GeneralList

    I believe it's all the same source material, but which is the original edition, I'm not sure.
     
  9. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

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  10. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Interesting. I wonder if it mentions my relation (Major Douglas Witherington) who developed the technique.
     
  11. idler

    idler GeneralList

    A bit:

    IMG_20190927_4216.jpg

    IMG_20190927_18741.jpg
     
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  12. SDP

    SDP Incurable Cometoholic

    Gosh! Amazing and detailed information. I'll be telling mum (Douglas's cousin) in the next few days. This has confirmed a bit of family history. Sincere thanks for posting.
     
  13. bamboo43

    bamboo43 Very Senior Member

    Might be some further info or paperwork in the form of the full letter referred to by the author. You have a lead there SDP.
     
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  14. Great - I will try to find it on ABE books and through inter-library loan. Our librarians always appreciate a challenge!
    Thanks,

    Barbara
     
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  15. Thistle746

    Thistle746 Active Member

    Resurrection of an old thread...;)

    Yesterday evening I was listening to a Podcast on the Italian Campaign - primary focus was Monte Cassino. (I will take the opportunity to comment that the guest on this podcast is a very well respected historian and author). In the course of the dialog this historian commented that due to the coalition nature of this campaign, it caused significant problems with the mules understanding different languages and training methods. For example; a company of mules attached to, say Indian troops could not be transferred to New Zealand troops as they wouldn't understand the orders. Furthermore, the mules diets differed from nation to nation.

    Is this true? I'd love to believe it and recount this story. It'd be fantastic pub talk!

    My farming and horse riding buddy calls BS. Which disappoints me greatly.

    Anyone else heard of this?
     
  16. idler

    idler GeneralList

    The RAVC history has a couple of pages on the different types and 'nationalities' of mules used in Italy with regard to their hardiness and suitability for terrain and conditions, but I couldn't see anything that suggested differences in their trainability.
     
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  17. Quarterfinal

    Quarterfinal Well-Known Member

    I always remember being educated on more than one occasion by a WW2 veteran with experience of mules that a mule would carry “forty blankets and no more; if you put on forty one, it won’t move.”

    Although I never forgot the received wisdom, I never had to apply it. Interest rekindled by this thread, I looked up in a 1914 Field Officer’s Pocket Book what the planning load for a mule was - assuming it would be similarly applied in WW2. Under ‘Other Loads’ the table cited 160lbs; that for a Pack Horse being 200lbs. In India, the planning load was 2 ‘maunds’, a maund being a varying unit of weight in many Asian countries, but standardized here to 100 Troy pounds (nowadays 37 kg.) A camel was listed as capable of 5 maunds.

    The same Pocket Book listed a British Army blanket as weighing 4.5lbs, so a sacrosanct load of forty would equate to 180lbs, but I suppose a carry frame would need to be factored in.

    By way of imagining other loads, a UK box of 1,000 rounds of .303 ammo (20 bandoliers of 50 rounds in chargers) weighed 75lbs. Seemingly, it was common in India for .303 box loads to be 1,120 rounds, with a staff planning weight of 93lbs 10oz. Heavier boxes?

    The ordinary UK daily forage ration for animals in camp was listed as 12lbs oats and 12lbs hay for mules over 15 hands; smaller mules receiving 6lbs oats and 12lbs hay. In India, ‘Ordnance’ mule rations were 6lbs oats (barley or gram), 20lbs hay and 0.66oz of salt; ‘First Class’ baggage mules being scaled less at 6lbs oats (barley or gram), 15lbs hay and 0.66oz of salt.

    Pack mule marching rates on fair terrain were presumed at 3mph; the same as laden infantry. Perhaps of note was that users were reminded that mules required a considerable time to consume their fodder - not less than 5 hours in 24 being recommended. They also needed to be moved at a reduced pace immediately after watering. It was inferred that loads should be eased and girths slackened when being fed and watered, together with animals being enabled to roll to improve circulation whenever possible.
     
  18. idler

    idler GeneralList

    There's a reason India Pattern tents were sized 80lb and 160lb!

    A reprint of the Indian Army's Notes on Animal Transport is available, though the focus is on Burma rather than Italy:

    Lulu
     
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  19. Thistle746

    Thistle746 Active Member

    Nothing about a "mule language barrier" though? :huh:
     
  20. Quarterfinal

    Quarterfinal Well-Known Member

    What a mule can carry ..... perhaps ever so. I am minded that in Roman legions, each contubernium had its own tent, reckoned at about 3 meters wide, 1.5 meters high and often made from goatskin. The ‘section’ tent was transported by a mule assigned to the unit and perhaps handled by a slave. The animal’s load comprised a folded leather tent, two poles, pegs, ropes, two baskets (perhaps used as panniers and in digging a marching camp ditch), digging tools, a small stone grain mill and extra food. Legionaries were expected to be able to routinely cover about 18 miles a day, so ditto the mule.
     
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