Have you seen the pictures I've posted? He could have been promoted (after the photograph was taken).
1938 era and the road to war.There were quite a number of Germans living in the US who were caught in Germany on holiday and were pressed into the German forces. Obviously some returned to the fatherland and volunteered due to the nationalistic feeling prevailing at the time. Interesting situation regarding father and son who could have met on the battlefield in Western Europe.Was there any chance of that? My mother tells me that my grandfather (Opa) just wanted to visit Germany with his family in 1938, but my sisters and I think he was more a patriotic German. Even after leaving shattered Germany after the war and returning to America he never wanted to become an American citizen. In fact, in the last days of his life in 1970 he was diagnosed with heart decease he purposely went back to Germany to die.
Have you posted these on any of the WWII German Military Sites? There are a few of them on the Internet who have some really knowledgeable people. Here is one of the better sites, Feldgrau.com - The German Armed Forces 1919-1945 Thanks for the link. I have a photo that I have been trying to research and that site might be just the place to go. Thank again
He could have been promoted (after the photograph was taken). You could be right. In the first photo you can see a small table with something on top of it possibly medals to be presented. Before these pictures were taken my grandfather was captured by the French and became a POW there. He cut off one of his own toes to get into the infirmary which he escaped from and made his way back to Germany. I wish I knew more of the details. I have to try researching his military records.
I would really like some ones help on understanding what is going on in a selection of photographs I found in my grandfathers photo album. They seem to depict some kind of ceremony in a outdoor square. Where men wearing some plain white uniforms are sitting on folding chairs with German officers all around them. My Grandfather was a German soldier from 1940-1945. He was captured by the French and put in a POW camp which he escaped from and made his way back to Germany. I'm wondering if what's pictured is a ceremony repatriating captured soldiers back into German service. I will post the photos soon if anyone is interested in helping me solve this mystery. I don't think these photos are related to repatriating captured soldiers. Even though the uniforms are mixed, they appear complete. It's generally the case, that in captivity, it is not possible to replace worn and lost uniform items. And captivity with the French could be particularly rough. I understand they put a lot of pressure on German captives to join the Foreign Legion. In any case I think it was many years after the war before Germany had any sort of military service. Returned PoW's would probably be 'discharged', unceremoniously, by the occupying government. Except for the mix of officers and enlisted, I would guess some sort of rest and recreation activity. Or perhaps some sort of relaxation time for his unit, perhaps during occupation duty. Are the white uniforms an indication of an early war period? And please pardon our distraction with your family story, it is fascinating. I assume you meant your father served with the 502d Parachute Infantry Regiment (five-o-deuce)? PA Dutchman - Thanks for the book link, I have only one other title from the armored infantry. When I find a few more titles, I will be ordering.
I don't think these photos are related to repatriating captured soldiers. Even though the uniforms are mixed, they appear complete. It's generally the case, that in captivity, it is not possible to replace worn and lost uniform items. And captivity with the French could be particularly rough. I understand they put a lot of pressure on German captives to join the Foreign Legion. In any case I think it was many years after the war before Germany had any sort of military service. Returned PoW's would probably be 'discharged', unceremoniously, by the occupying government. Except for the mix of officers and enlisted, I would guess some sort of rest and recreation activity. Or perhaps some sort of relaxation time for his unit, perhaps during occupation duty. Are the white uniforms an indication of an early war period? And please pardon our distraction with your family story, it is fascinating. I assume you meant your father served with the 502d Parachute Infantry Regiment (five-o-deuce)? PA Dutchman - Thanks for the book link, I have only one other title from the armored infantry. When I find a few more titles, I will be ordering. Wow, thanks for that information. It's very interesting that you mentioned a recreation activity. On the same page of his album are pictures of what looks like a resort on a lake. I will post them tonight. As far as I know my Dad served in the 101st Airborn and the 52nd or 82nd infantry. I have to get his papers from my Mom. My Dad never served overseas the war in Europe ended the same month he finished his training.
I think that you will find that the off white uniform is that used whilst training and working. Regards Tom
Re: german army white (ish) uniform I'm still guessing that the white 'fatigue' uniform came about in the pre-war / early war period during the rapid expansion of the army. The US Army had a stop-gap, blue 'denim' fatigue uniform. I'm thinking an un-dyed uniform would be cheaper and quicker to produce on short notice. I expect to be proved wrong, but I can't seem to help speculating, it's actually kinda fun, apologies in advance.
As far as I know my Dad served in the 101st Airborn and the 52nd or 82nd infantry. I have to get his papers from my Mom. My Dad never served overseas the war in Europe ended the same month he finished his training. IIRC, the 101st was deactivated in Germany and not reactivated as a training division until the 1950's. So your father probably served in the 82d.
I'm getting a lot of feedback about the white uniforms and thank you for that, all. I am more interested in what everyone thinks is happening in the photos I posted. Can everyone see them from my previous post or did I do something wrong. Thanks everyone for your help Eartican You seem very knowledgeable. I will check my fathers papers and get back to you.
I'm getting a lot of feedback about the white uniforms and thank you for that, all. I am more interested in what everyone thinks is happening in the photos I posted. Can everyone see them from my previous post or did I do something wrong. Thanks everyone for your help Eartican You seem very knowledgeable. I will check my fathers papers and get back to you. The photographs look like the first two are from training of some sort. The last of the three is a typical Beer Garden type set up. It could be a celebration for end of training etc. With the tables and folding chairs being typical and still used today in Germany for summer time use. Regards Tom
The photographs look like the first two are from training of some sort. The last of the three is a typical Beer Garden type set up. It could be a celebration for end of training etc. With the tables and folding chairs being typical and still used today in Germany for summer time use. Regards Tom Thank You Tom. That would fit and make sense with some of the other photos. Except the thought of the last photo being a beer garden, forgive me but I don't see anyone drinking. (wo das bier ist) and they don't look very happy. I'll post more tonight.
The importance of the white uniform is approximating the time frame of the photos. This, from Wikipedia, would indicate this was a mid-war event. I would guess the white uniform almost vanished by 1943. Wikipedia: Every recruit was issued a fatigue uniform for basic training which he kept for work details, weapons cleaning and other duties likely to soil clothes. This was an unlined, insignia-less uniform made of linen or cotton herringbone twill (HBT) with two buttonless patch pockets on the skirt, originally undyed and therefore an offwhite oatmeal color; on 12 February 1940 the color was ordered changed to a bluish green called "reed-green." Sorry there is not much information in those photos to say much else. The first photo could be a class/lecture on some new device, as displayed on the three-legged table, available for the instructor to hold up and pass around. On the second photo, I just noticed that they are only wearing the tunic of the white uniform. What could they have done to tear up their feldgrau tunic and now wearing a mixed uniform? Third photo, they appear to be attending a performance of some sort, they are all facing something, presumably a stage. Regarding your grandfather's head-and-shoulder photo, the color of the 'piping' around the epaulets would give us some idea of what his unit did.
I don't think these photos are related to repatriating captured soldiers. Even though the uniforms are mixed, they appear complete. It's generally the case, that in captivity, it is not possible to replace worn and lost uniform items. And captivity with the French could be particularly rough. I understand they put a lot of pressure on German captives to join the Foreign Legion. In any case I think it was many years after the war before Germany had any sort of military service. Returned PoW's would probably be 'discharged', unceremoniously, by the occupying government. Except for the mix of officers and enlisted, I would guess some sort of rest and recreation activity. Or perhaps some sort of relaxation time for his unit, perhaps during occupation duty. Are the white uniforms an indication of an early war period? And please pardon our distraction with your family story, it is fascinating. I assume you meant your father served with the 502d Parachute Infantry Regiment (five-o-deuce)? PA Dutchman - Thanks for the book link, I have only one other title from the armored infantry. When I find a few more titles, I will be ordering. I obtained copies of all my Dad's military papers including his letter of separation and his honorable discharge papers. My Dad was in the 505th PARACHUTE INF REGT. He went in the service in 1944 he was discharged in 1946. He completed his 4 wk parachute training at Ft Benning GA before his discharge. Listed on his discharge paper is the list of medals he was awarded. The American Campaign medal,good conduct medal,World War II victory Medal and Expert INF badge For marksmanship. I remember seeing a group photo of my Dad and his unit it's possible that photo has info on it that is incorrect I'll have to find it and check.
The importance of the white uniform is approximating the time frame of the photos. This, from Wikipedia, would indicate this was a mid-war event. I would guess the white uniform almost vanished by 1943. Sorry there is not much information in those photos to say much else. The first photo could be a class/lecture on some new device, as displayed on the three-legged table, available for the instructor to hold up and pass around. On the second photo, I just noticed that they are only wearing the tunic of the white uniform. What could they have done to tear up their feldgrau tunic and now wearing a mixed uniform? Third photo, they appear to be attending a performance of some sort, they are all facing something, presumably a stage. Regarding your grandfather's head-and-shoulder photo, the color of the 'piping' around the epaulets would give us some idea of what his unit did. Thank You very much for all you help.
I obtained copies of all my Dad's military papers including his letter of separation and his honorable discharge papers. My Dad was in the 505th PARACHUTE INF REGT. He went in the service in 1944 he was discharged in 1946. He completed his 4 wk parachute training at Ft Benning GA before his discharge. Listed on his discharge paper is the list of medals he was awarded. The American Campaign medal,good conduct medal,World War II victory Medal and Expert INF badge For marksmanship. I remember seeing a group photo of my Dad and his unit it's possible that photo has info on it that is incorrect I'll have to find it and check. Last digress (so he says)... That all adds up. The 505th PIR was the original parachute infantry regiment assigned to the 82d Airborne Division. The 82d returned to the US about January 1946. Basic and Infantry training was about 14 weeks and most likely would have been at one of the Infantry Replacement Training Centers: Camp Blanding FL, Camp Wolters (sp?) TX, Camp Croft SC, and maybe others. All of which should have been working at full capacity in preparation for the invasion of Japan. I your fathers Expert Infantry Badge [EIB] is related to the Combat Infantry Badge [CIB]. The EIB required proving proficient in a number of individual infantry skills to include qualifying as Expert in Rifle Marksmanship. Every soldier was required to have a weapon qualification, as a minimum: Marksmen, next higher: Sharpshooter, or highest: Expert. Regards,
Last digress (so he says)... That all adds up. The 505th PIR was the original parachute infantry regiment assigned to the 82d Airborne Division. The 82d returned to the US about January 1946. Basic and Infantry training was about 14 weeks and most likely would have been at one of the Infantry Replacement Training Centers: Camp Blanding FL, Camp Wolters (sp?) TX, Camp Croft SC, and maybe others. All of which should have been working at full capacity in preparation for the invasion of Japan. I your fathers Expert Infantry Badge [EIB] is related to the Combat Infantry Badge [CIB]. The EIB required proving proficient in a number of individual infantry skills to include qualifying as Expert in Rifle Marksmanship. Every soldier was required to have a weapon qualification, as a minimum: Marksmen, next higher: Sharpshooter, or highest: Expert. Regards, Wow your very good. My Dad once told me that when he was approaching the end of his training, troops were coming back in droves all shot up and in very battle weary condition he remembered thinking, "This is no joke, I'm really going to be in the s**t now". He told me he thought he probably wouldn't survive it all. Then of course the war ended in Europe but the Pacific theater was still raging. At that point an officer asked my Dad if he wanted additional training in communications. My Dad said yes and that might have saved his life. My Dad told me some of his fellow 505th buddies did go to war and didn't make it back. I have to research and find out where they went and what happened. It would be great if you have any of that info. Thanks Again
I have added More images attached to my original post. Enjoy. Included are some very interesting images of some kind of resort I think was for R an R for the German military I would like to identify. Also a very old group shot of what I believe is a Prussian fire brigade which was on of the first images in my Grandfather's Album. There is only one remaining image taken in France all the others were ripped out of the Album I don't no by who or why. In that image you can see a man wearing an iron cross ribbon still attached as if it were just presented to him.Looking forward to all your comments. Original post- http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/germany/35571-help-please-more-curious-german-photographs.html
Could you scan No. 7 (group photo france) at a higher resolution? That way it might be possible to read the sleeve band (Grossdeutschland?) and make out what award(s) he got (probably Sturmabzeichen or Panzer-Kampfabzeichen?). Are you sure this is France? The houses look East European. Some random info on img No. 3: On the board it reads Mittagskost Kartoffelsuppe 1 (?) Speck Abendkost Weichkäse 125(?)gr Margarine 50(?) gr 1/3 Brot (Potatoe soup with bacon for lunch, soft cheese, margarine and bread for dinner)
