I wonder if any of our vets can help me? One of my old bosses, now sadly passed away fought at Cassino. I never really had enough time to listen to a lot of his stories however, one I do remember. He used to recall how in the mornings they used to have to attack a ridge and force the Germans to retreat. They were then relieved by Americans who brought up all the home comforts. Rations, lucky strikes etc. Just before nightfall the Germans took the ridge back from the Amis, thus capturing all the rations. Apparently this cycle went on for a while. Was it just a bit of anti-American banter or could it have been the truth?
Joe Can't think off hand of anytime the Americans were in any position to supply British troops with rations and comforts etc at Cassino...the 1st battle was with the Americans and French North Africans - 2nd battle was Kiwis and 4th Indians in which there were three British battalions - 3rd battle was the same cast with 78th Div alongside - the 4th battle was wholly British and Commonwealth of 8th Army and the US 5th Army with the French on the left flank and the Americans on the far West coast. So which outfit was your boss with..... ? This might have happened in the advance towards Cassino over the Garigliano when Xth British corps were fighting in the US 5th Army to create a bridgehead over the river.....the Xth corps at that time was 5th - 46th and 56th British Divs - before Anzio......might have been bare arsed ridge at Monte Camino.....his unit would tell us more .... Cheers
JoeFraser We have very few veterans on this site who were in the infantry and served at Cassino. One comes to mind immediately, namely my good friend Footslogger and perhaps we can coax him out of hiding to make comment . My own time at Cassino was purely in the role of a wireless op in Light Ack Ack and I spent most of my time diving into slit trenches when shelling became a bit much. I give below excerpts from the Regimental Diary of the 49th LAA starting at the first reference to Mignano which was our first move into the Cassino area. My Battery was 84 Bty . 1944 On 26 Feb B/90 Tp I moved under command 36 Bde to Mignano, C/84 Tp also moved to Mignano in support of 132 Fd Regt. By 1 Mar the regt, les NB/90 Tp, was concentrated in the general area Pignataro- i Villa Volturno. B/90 was concentrated at Mignano. Capt ARE Matthei joined and became Adjt and Capt RE Weeks was promoted to Maj to command 84 Bty vice Maj Mouland who was in hospital. On 2 Mar RHQ, 90 bty, less A Tp and 84 Bty, moved to Mignano. There had been heavy rain and many vehicles were bogged. On 3 Mar C/90 Tp moved to protect a diversion on the Speedy Express supply route. The CO ordered all SP guns to put chains on their wheels. On the night 8/9th 280 Bty completed deployed to Speedy Express to relieve US troops. On 15 Mar the NZ Corps operation to capture Cassino and break into the Liri Valley, which had been postponed daily since mid Feb, began at 1200 hrs. It was agreed that after a bridgehead had been established on the west bank of R Rapido a tp of 90 Bty would allot 3 guns for the defence of each bridge on the east bank, the remaining two tps to go through the bridgehead, one to protect 138 Fd Regt and the other to deploy 3 guns at each bridge on the west bank. On 21 Mar the regt was ordered to take over the task of providing a smoke screen at Speedy Express Highway and Highway 6 Bridges over R Rapido. 84 Bty took on this task. Between 1250 and 1310 hrs on 25 Mar 430 to 40 enemy aircraft in three main waves approached Cassino from the south, flying up Speedy Express and Route 6. They were engaged first by 18 guns of 84 Bty concentrated at Mignano. 90 and 280 Btys and all other local LAA engaged. Seven aircraft were destroyed in all and 84 and 280 btys claimed one each. On 24 Mar 280 Bty fired pointer rounds at two Me 109s and our own fighters took up the chase. On the night of 25/26 Mar 21 guns of 57 LAA Regt were relieved by 90 Bty, B Tp at Cervaro, A Tp, the next night, to north of Trocchio and C Tp, that same night, to San Michele. On 26 j Mar the CO was taken off duty by the MO and Maj Bent assumed temporary command. The CO went to hospital on the 27th. At about this time the regt took over 24 x 20 mm Oerlikon guns for deployment in 11 and 36 Bde areas in the mountains north of Cassino. On the 27th BC 84 Bty reported that the areas to be defended by the 20 mm guns were a 4.2 inch mortar area and a Jeephead. Daylight recce was believed to be impossible. On the night 28/29th six 20 mm were deployed in pairs and another six in pairs, on the night 29/30th. Maj Mouland returned from hospital and resumed command of 84 Bty On the 29th SOP guns became available for 280 Bty, the 12 existing guns having been employed, 6 to each of 84f and 90 Btys, an SP tp in each On 31 Mar 84 Bty was relieved of the smoke task. The bty had been congratulated by the CRA on producing a very effective screen. 84 Bty was then ordered to deploy A and B Tp|A to cover 17 Fd Regt to allow B/90^3 return to its previous posn and B/84 to protect Route 6 San Pietro to Cervaro. These moves took place on 1 Apr. On 11 Apr Lt Col Hunt returned to duty and assumed command. On 12 Apr the following officers appointments were changed: Maj AR Mouland appointed 21C, Maj JA Bannatyne, recently joined from HQ 5 Corps, BC 84 Bty, Maj ER Bent resumed command of 90 Bty. The regt was given another smoke task. On 21 Apr Lt Col Hunt was posted home and the 2IC assumed command on 22 Apr. The CO was then nominated AADC 13 Corps area. Over the next few days the regt was relieved piecemeal On 23 Apr RHQ moved to the new area (not specified in the War Diary). 90 LAA Bty was deployed at light scales, only 6 men per gun. Tac HQ 2890 Bty and B Tp employed on the smoke screen and 25 men as stretcher-bearers, 84 Bty, elements of C Tp at rear RHQ (304918) and the rest of the regt in the same area. Training courses began and included minefield lifting and marking.
Hi, thanks for the replies. Unfortunately I never knew his unit. Tom, I think he meant they took the supplies up for themselves. He was hinting that our troops did the fighting to take the ridge, then were relieved by the Americans,who promptly gave it up and all their own supplies at the first German counter attack. Ron, your diary snippets are very interesting. Strange thing as well, one of the German vets I know was also in the Flak in his division ( Only ever on the Eastern front though ). I wonder what sort of meeting you would have, both having the same sort of "trade", so to speak.
Hi Joe, The only reference I can find to the kind of see saw battles to which you refer is about Snakeshaed Ridge during the 2nd battle, but as Tom so rightly points out there were no American units wholly involved as this was a 4th Indian show (however they had several English regt's Essex, Sussex and Cameron Highlanders. However British attacks were almost always night affairs and it was the Germans who counterattacked either early morning or daytime. Their were several occasions when British units relieved US ones who had taken a pounding and I don't think that any unit gave up any position without a very tough fight. The best book I have read about Cassino is 'Monte Cassino' by Matthew Parker. The most knowledgeablr vet Iv'e traded thoughts with is Tom. Cheers Macca
Hi Macca, funnily enough I have just picked up that book in a charity shop for 50p. It was a long time ago and I could have got the sequence wrong, but the gist of what he said was right. However it looks like it may have been just a bit of war banter between the nations.
Joe - perhaps you are right that it is a bit out of sequence - as if your boss had been in the 78th Div for example - he might have been mixed up with the battle for Longstop Hill in North Africa when the Guards took the one known hill top - without knowing that it was a two hilltop affair - the Americans took over - and promptly lost the hilltop - the guards went back up - the mist cleared and they then realised that the Germans had been sitting on the second hilltop - the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders finally took the both hilltops with the assistance of Gerry Chester's "B" squadron of the North Irish Horse, Churchill Tanks. This is about the only time the Brits were followed by the Americans - apart from the Garigliano - before Cassino that is..... Cheers
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o:p></o:p> Hi Joe Can only imagine your boss had got his battles mixed up as there were many times the two armies fought side by side indeed we actually fought as the fifth army at times which of course was American but we were the 78<SUP>th</SUP> British division and came to Cassino after the yanks had taken a beating there and as Tom said the next battle was the 4<SUP>th</SUP> Indian and the new Zealanders after that our battalion had Vickers machine guns in Cassino railway station and were relieved by the Kiwis going in for the 3<SUP>rd</SUP> battle along with the 4<SUP>th</SUP> Indian division very harrowing times and Ron your regimental diaries recorded on the 27<SUP>th</SUP>of march that the 84 battery areas to be defended by the twenty millimetre guns were the 4.2 mortar area which was our mob again our regiment being the only regiment with the big mortars as the divisional support battalion we were stretched around all the other infantry regiments in the 78<SUP>th</SUP> Division as extra fire power. Ironically lat year I pulled up on the net the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Cassino</st1:City></st1:place> veteran site that names all the infantry regiments that fought there all nationalities and we are not on the list so perhaps the above was perhaps a bad dream 1<SUP>st</SUP> Batt the Kensington INFANTRY Regiment <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Cheers niccar
Hi Niccar Good to see that you are still around to keep us in order I was amused to see your reference to the Kensington's not getting a memtion Ironically last year I pulled up on the net the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.ww2talk.com/forum/ /><st1:City w:st=</st1:City>Cassino</ST1:place veteran site that names all the infantry regiments that fought there all nationalities and we are not on the list so perhaps the above was perhaps a bad dream 1<SUP>st</SUP> Batt the Kensington INFANTRY Regiment I've lost count of the number of reference books that fail to recognise the role of the 49th LAA or even list them as being one of the units in the 78 Div. Like yourself, I wonder if it was all a dream ! Keep well and keep taking the tablets Ron
- 2nd battle was Kiwis and 4th Indians in which there were three British battalions Tom, I recently visited the Church of Ireland Cathedrals, St Patrick's Armagh and St Anne's Belfast where laid up Colours of the Royal Irish Fusiliers and Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers are on display. A battle honour that appears on the Queen's Colour for both regiments is: Cassino II Does that relate directly to the battle you mentioned above. Kind regards.
RJL - If you will note Niccar's message # 8 in which he mentions that he was at Cassino Station for battle #2 - now his Battalion of Kensingtons were the heavy m/c gun unit for 78th Division - and Ron's 49th was the light AA unit also for 78th Div at the same time the 6th Armoured Division were pulling into that same area - and of course the Skins - R Irish Rifles - and London Rifles were a part of 38th INFANTRY bde of 78 th Div - whereas the Kiwi's and 4th Indian were the leading assault divs for Battle #2 mainly the Monastery and Snakehead Ridge etc - they had all the support necessary from the two other divs - and hundreds of guns - Battles tend to get a bit mixed up at times - at that same time my brigade of Tanks were training hard a few miles south of Cassino with the canadians - along with Gerry Chester's 25th Tank bde at Lucera to be ready for the call - which came at the 4th and final battle of the Diadem operation - where the whole of 8th Army - less the 6th South African Armoured were involved - all pushing and shoving to get through the gap - with few bridges left standing- at the same time the Canadians 1st and 5th Divs replaced the Kiwi's for that battle... After Rome was "Liberated' - the 78th Div - 6th Armoured and the 6th South African along with 9th armoured bde joined the 5th US army towards Lago Trasemino - then 78th took off for Egypt for a rest ! You think that you have been in a traffic jam - no way if you missed Diadem ! Cheers
RJL- thinking about that traffic jam at Aquino - Pontecorvo - we have the River Secco on the left flank -then the 8th Indian div - the Canadian 5th Armoured - 1st Canadian - 6th Armoured - 78th Div - 4th Div - 90,000 odd men - 600 tanks -quite a few trucks - all pushing and shoving in less than 20 miles width of entrance to the Liri Valley......and the Germans in front ..... The 6th Armoured comes back to re-fuel as their echelons can't get to them - they bump into 5th Cdn Armoured - and at the same time as the whole of an AGRA ( ARMY GROUP ROYAL ARTILLERY) decide to shorten their firing distance and move into the valley....... it was not Aberdeen on a flag day ... Cheers
