Modern small force composition??

Discussion in 'Postwar' started by kfz, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    Looking for some links (or books) on modern small scale warfare, componistion, stratagy, tactics etc.

    Especially interested in any historical conflicts may have a bearing on contempory thoughts.

    Some of you guys must have looked into this.

    Kev
     
  2. Verrieres

    Verrieres no longer a member

    Looking for some links (or books) on modern small scale warfare, componistion, stratagy, tactics etc.

    Especially interested in any historical conflicts may have a bearing on contempory thoughts.

    Some of you guys must have looked into this.

    Kev


    Hi,
    Heres a starter although you may already be aware of it
    Britains Small Wars

    Regards
    Verrieres
     
  3. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    KFZ -
    Not having studied this is in any depth - it seems to me that the modern force composition to-day is that of an expanded Brigade group into that of a Battle Group based on the WW2 - Blade - Hart - Porter force type especially in North Africa and Italy - of make up whereas a force of say a squadron of Tanks - a company of Infantry -troops of Sappers and Artillery - would swan off to deal a lot of hurt to the enemy - short bursts of action to cause great damage to supply routes - dumps et al - extended form of SAS parties if you will......

    Cheers
     
  4. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    KFZ -
    Not having studied this is in any depth - it seems to me that the modern force composition to-day is that of an expanded Brigade group into that of a Battle Group based on the WW2 - Blade - Hart - Porter force type especially in North Africa and Italy - of make up whereas a force of say a squadron of Tanks - a company of Infantry -troops of Sappers and Artillery - would swan off to deal a lot of hurt to the enemy - short bursts of action to cause great damage to supply routes - dumps et al - extended form of SAS parties if you will......

    Cheers


    Tom,
    Yep ,Im thinking along the same lines, as the saying goes 'there is nothing new under the sun'. I cant help thinking that a lot of the reorganistion politicians all over the world say armed forces need is motivated as much by political and money saving reasons as good tactical ones.

    I understand the need to change and to respond to the threat but I cant help thinking to abondoning lessons hard learnt is folly.

    Kev
     
  5. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    KFZ -
    I would agree that most politicians to-day would just as soon disband all their defence forces - leaving it to someone else to do the job - thus saving oddles of cash for their platinum plated pension perks....the poem of the last one in the RAF is close to the truth ...
    Cheers
     
  6. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    Im sure you right.

    Still the RN is getting as full size carrier, the RAF has (a few) its short range Air to air fighters despite the critics with tere 1930's era crys of "why do we need small interceptors, France is our ally") .

    Kev
     
  7. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    KFZ ......

    That may all be very well true ... BUT ... when ?

    Cheerds
     
  8. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Nine Battles to Stanley- wriiten by a officer in the Intelligence Corps. Very technical and can get a bit boring. But it has a balanced approarch to both sides.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  9. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Im sure you right.

    Still the RN is getting as full size carrier, the RAF has (a few) its short range Air to air fighters despite the critics with tere 1930's era crys of "why do we need small interceptors, France is our ally") .

    Kev

    Hi Kev,

    The Royal Navy is getting two equiped with American VSTOL Joint Strike Fighters :)

    One is called HMS Queen Elizabeth II. I think the second is named after Charlie :D

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  10. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    KFZ -
    Not having studied this is in any depth - it seems to me that the modern force composition to-day is that of an expanded Brigade group into that of a Battle Group based on the WW2 - Blade - Hart - Porter force type especially in North Africa and Italy - of make up whereas a force of say a squadron of Tanks - a company of Infantry -troops of Sappers and Artillery - would swan off to deal a lot of hurt to the enemy - short bursts of action to cause great damage to supply routes - dumps et al - extended form of SAS parties if you will......

    Cheers

    Tom

    That was happening in Iraq or somthing similiar (I still don't really know what happened in iraq whilst I was there). The Black Watch and Fuiliers were the Brigades two main battlegroups.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  11. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Tom,
    Yep ,Im thinking along the same lines, as the saying goes 'there is nothing new under the sun'. I cant help thinking that a lot of the reorganistion politicians all over the world say armed forces need is motivated as much by political and money saving reasons as good tactical ones.

    I understand the need to change and to respond to the threat but I cant help thinking to abondoning lessons hard learnt is folly.

    Kev

    There is no other in my opinion :lol:

    Sorry I'm taking over here.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  12. kfz

    kfz Very Senior Member

    There is no other in my opinion :lol:

    Sorry I'm taking over here.

    Cheers
    Andy


    Andy,

    dont worry mate, feel free to vent.

    I disagree I think change is due, post cold war, post Iraq (almost). Im just interested in what the top brass are thinking and modern thoughts on how things are moving ahead

    Been reading quite a few *modern* Trog accounts like Apache, Sniper one, black hawk down and its interesting on the viewpoint on the troops on the ground and despite the talk of change how little has really changed?? Looking for comparisons between modern conflicts and WW2

    Kev
     
  13. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Change normally comes after a major conflict- The Falkalands, Gulf 1, Bosnia and Kosovo and Iraq. It normaly comes in the form of a SDR (Strategic Defence Review) that involves the alamagamation of regiments etc to save money. The latest being newly formed regiments like 'The Rifles', 'The Yorkshire Regiment' etc etc etc.

    If you want modern as in year 2000's+, Read 'The Last Round' I was down the road then. A few more 'Op Barras' and 'Dusty Warrior'.

    I heard that the Fall of Basra was rather a good tactical move on behalf of the brigade commander at 7th Armd. All the ruperts were talking about it and the rumours were that it would go into military tactic books around the world and the method was being looked at by different military establishments around the world on how to take a city.

    It may be worth doing some research into that one mate.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  14. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    A couple more sitting on my shelf that I've not got around to reading yet:

    Tim Collins-Rules of Engagement

    John Simpson-The Wars against Saddam(The long road to Baghdad)

    Micheal J Durrant-In the Company of Heroes.

    Ewen Southerby-Taylor-Reasons in Writing.

    Oliver Poole-Black Knights

    Mike Rose-Fighting for Peace

    Richard Engel-A fist in the Honets Nest

    The earliest of the above selection is about The Falklands War.

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  15. Tom Canning

    Tom Canning WW2 Veteran WW2 Veteran

    Drew -

    That appears to be the system for action these day - Battle Groups of all arms - nowaday it would be full battalions etc

    You didn't know what was happening in Irag ?

    It was on TV - papers -BBc etc - there must some books on that already !
    Cheers
     
  16. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot Patron 1940 Obsessive

    Tom,

    Whilst I was there I had little contact with the outside world (Bluey's and 20minutes on a Sat phone per week was the only contact I had) and we only managed to get a TV towards the end of the tour by which time most of the news crews had left as the 'War' was over. Outside what was happening with my Troop and some of my Squadrons activities I didn't really know what was going on. I feel like I was cocooned to everything outside my work area. Quite hard to explain really.

    I have read a couple of good books that were written about Iraq when I was there- 'The Last Round' and a rather good book by Nathan Flick about the 1st USMC Recon. But I have very little connection with them and have yet to find a book about the whole campaign that appeals to me. Ideally one about 7th Armoured would be good and I was hoping the Bde commander would write one.

    As for snooze papers.......I never read them.

    Cheers
    Andy
     

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