MOD ALREADY TRANSFERRING WW2 SERVICE FILES TO UK NATIONAL ARCHIVES 2021

Found the bit I was looking for in TNA guide - a bit more convoluted than I had grasped with service number proviso (as no upperlimit this could also extend post war to National Service similar to Army AIR78 index goes up to 1976ish ) and pre war officer exclusion.


Royal Air Force personnel - The National Archives

"3.2 Airmen (not officers) after 1939
Records of RAF airmen who served after 1939, and of men whose service numbers were above 562875, are currently being transferred from the Ministry of Defence. These records are not yet available to search on the catalogue but can be requested by submitting a Freedom of Information (FOI) application to request a search for and access to the record. Use one of the following three forms (charges may apply):

Form 1: Request your own record if you were born before or in 1939 (or if you are doing this on behalf of someone)

Form 2: Request military service records for a person born before 1910

Form 3: Request military service records for a person born between 1910 and 1939"

3.4 Officers after 1922
Records of RAF officers who served after 1922 are still with the Ministry of Defence. Look on the GOV.UK website to find out how to obtain service records.

Ross

 

Army ORs upto 1963 to be transferred to TNA - MoD to retain for service after National Service

British Army soldiers in service after 1945 - The National Archives

This is a guide to finding records of soldiers who served with the British Army after the end of the Second World War. The ranks covered include Private, Lance Corporal, Corporal, Sergeant, and Warrant Officer – but not commissioned officer ranks.

Though we hold some service records for soldiers who served after 1945, all service records after 1963, when National Service came to an end in the United Kingdom, are still held by the Ministry of Defence (MOD).

British Army officers in service after 1918 - The National Archives

Looks like no TNA holding for Army Officers after 1918 but cut off date not clear in guides

The National Archives does not hold officer’s service records for the Second World War – these are still with the Ministry of Defence.

Ross

 

Anyone know what this might be about? Having to wait for 26 years before being allowed service information - "because it could be actionable in court"!
Reply from The National Archives......

Thank you for your patience with your Freedom of Information request of19/05/2024 into the service record of J STEAD (Service Number:3712146).

Having reviewed this record (with reference to the proof of death provided), we are unable to open this record because all of the information is exempt under section 41 of the Freedom of Information (FOI) Act 2000 until 2035. This means that we cannot make the record open to you or to the public in general.

The FOI Act gives you the right to know whether we hold the information you want and to have it communicated to you, subject to any exemptions which may apply.

Section 41
Section 41 (1) of the Act exempts information if (a) it was obtained by the public authority from any other person (including another public authority), and (b) the disclosure of the information to the public (otherwise than under the Act) by the public authority holding it would constitute a breach of confidence actionable by that or any other person.

The information contained in the record relates to medical information that has been deemed to have been given ‘in confidence’ at the time of recording to an authority, the release of which could be actionable in court. Although, for the purposes of the FOI Act, section 41 is an absolute exemption, I can confirm that we have taken into account the public interest defence test inherent within the common law duty of confidence in reaching this decision.

Exemption Section 41 may be applied if proof of death has been supplied if the subject of the record has not been deceased for 25 (+1) years. The duty of confidence owed to an individual when giving sensitive information extends beyond their death.

Please be aware that requests made under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 have to be treated as applicant blind. Therefore, being next-of-kin can have no bearing on the outcome of this request for information. Information released under FOI is released to the public at large, not just to a requester. This is why we have to review these records for sensitivities.

We appreciate that this may be disappointing news. However, these are the circumstances we have to take into account when reviewing these documents.

Currently, access for these records can only be facilitated under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

 

They mean they could get taken to court for disclosing the information. This is typically information that the subject could reasonably believe would be kept confidential (such as medical or legal data), but it shouldn't extend to movements and unit affiliations.

Read up on this thread and if the dates since birth and death are sufficiently long ago, then get back to them requesting a disclosure with the sensitive elements redacted.

What were J STEAD's dates of birth and death?

 

Advice found on the ICO website:

" Can the representatives of persons who are deceased bring an action for breach of confidence?

In appeal reference [2024] UKFTT 17 (GRC), the First-tier Tribunal considered a request for the driving licence application of a person who was deceased. The DVLA had withheld it under section 41(1) FOIA (information provided in confidence).

The Tribunal agreed the exemption was engaged, because personal representatives would be able to take legal action for breaching the duty of confidence owed to the licence applicant, who had originally provided the information.

What does the decision mean for public authorities?

This affirms our existing position that the personal representatives or executors of deceased persons can potentially bring an action for breach of confidence.

Even if you’re not sure whether personal representatives or executors exist, you can consider section 41 because they would potentially be able to bring an action (para 15)."

https://ico.org.uk/media2/migrated/decision-notices/412706/FS_50143838001.pdf

Faisal A Qureshi v The Information Commissioner - Find Case Law - The National Archives

 

He was born in 1921 and died in 2009 so they have said I have to wait until 2035
Thanks for the info Charley

 

Thanks for the info, It's a bit of a mystery what the sensitive info might be.

 

I always like this minute of the Advisory Council from February 2017, although no "update" can be found, and the Advisory Council have not published minutes since May 2024.

"7.3 The Council and MOD then discussed the transfer of service personnel records from the MOD to The National Archives. The Council was keen that the records be made available to the public as they were a valuable resource for family historians in particular. They recognised that it may take some time to find a workable solution given the volume of records and asked for an update in 12 months."

see minutes here:

https://webarchive.nationalarchives...ments/advisory-council-meeting-2017-02-13.pdf

As for driving licences, this is always great fun:

 

Another quick turnaround by TNA.

I thought I'd try and help a poster, who was looking for information on a 6th Airborne Signaller Op Varsity KIA.

Just two weeks after applying they supplied the full record, 60 pages.

I'm guessing 'died in service' requests are actioned much quicker than other requests.

Best.
John.

 

I don't want to sound envious to an unseemly degree, but what kind of system is this when some are waiting in excess or a year and others weeks?

Could it be linked to the physical location of the files or is it simply names out of a hat?

 

You are absolutely correct. Sometimes it does seem like names out of a hat. In this case, I believe it's down to the fact that he was KIA. I could be wrong though.

Best.
John.

 

Applied for Gun Buster’s record yesterday. Watch this space…for quite a while I expect.

 

Well, back down to earth with a bump.

My last RAF request was answered in 8 days. Just had confirmation that a request I submitted on 28 Jul 25, will take at least 8 months to answer.

John.

 

Kew have changed the method of accessing minutes of meetings to a direct download which works so fast it is not possible to copy and paste the URL. To get to the minutes use the "Search" at the top of the page and search for "Directors" or "Advisory Council.", then on to "minutes" or "meeting papers"

Remarkably, a few more minutes have been published - but not for the the User Advisory Group since March 2024 - and here are copies of the relevant entries:

Meeting minutes - The National Archives

Meeting summaries - The National Archives


"ADVISORY COUNCIL ON
NATIONAL RECORDS AND ARCHIVES
Date: 19 May 2025
Time: 11:00 – 15:30
Venue: The National Archives (TNA) and Video Link


3. The National Archives, CEO and Keeper’s Update
3.1. The CEO and Keeper, Mr Saul Nassé, introduced his report which was taken as read.
Page 2 of 6
3.2. Mr Saul Nassé highlighted the proposal to change TNA’s fees order in response to an increase in demand for services, largely because of the accession of the Ministry of Defence (MoD) service records. Ms Lucy Fletcher informed the Council that it was her intention to have this discussed either at the next Working Group meeting in June or at the July Advisory Council.
3.3. Members reflected on resourcing challenges within Government Departments, particularly in Knowledge and Information Management (KIM) teams. Ms Lucy Fletcher provided an overview of how TNA continues to support Departments in meeting their statutory obligations under the Public Records Act (1958) (PRA), and suggested she provide a further update as things progress in the CEO’s update for the July Advisory Council meeting."




"The National Archives Public Executive Team Meeting Minutes
Date of Meeting: Tuesday 03 June 2025 at 09:30
Location: Swan Room & Teams

4. MOD Service Records: Service Transformation Project Update
CC, LM, HP and the Service Transformation Manager joined the meeting.
4.1. LF introduced the item.
4.2. ET offered their congratulations to the team for the significant increase in the compliance level.
4.3. ET discussed the publication of the ‘Lessons Learned’ paper. LF confirmed that it was a commitment to the ICO and would be published publicly on the organisation’s website.
4.4. ET discussed the current backlog.
4.5. ET discussed the next steps, which would include resource planning for the following year.
4.6. Decision: ET noted the update and endorsed it to go to Board.

CC, LM, HP, the Service Transformation Manager and the Senior Management Accountant left the
meeting."



"The National Archives’ Public Special Executive Team Meeting
Minutes
Date of Meeting: Thursday 03 July 2025 at 09:30
Location: Swan Room and Teams


5. Communications and backlog management of the MOD service
Those present for item 5 only joined the meeting.
5.1. LF introduced the item and asked ET to specifically consider the external communications timeline.
5.2. ET discussed the options for scheduling communications.
5.3. Decision: ET agreed to make a public announcement on 3 November 2025, with a view to providing the associated service on 5 January 2026.
5.4. Action: LF to model the communications timeline based on these target dates.
5.5. Action: LF to share the recommendation and high-level risks with TNA’s Board at their September meeting.
5.6. Action: SN and LF to discuss the stakeholder engagement outside of the meeting.

Those present for item 5 only left the meeting."

 

Aarrggghhhh....how infuriating.

My latest RAF request has just been received, very happy with it.

However, my latest TNA request has been denied, but can be opened in 2026, 25+1 yrs after death.

I wouldn't mind but my RAF request was for a pilot who sadly passed in 2022...... but 25 yrs ago isn't OK for TNA

 

I don’t get why they’re denying it rather than just postpone it? 2026 is less than 70 days away. Surely you’re not going to have to reapply?

 

Beats me...25+1 yrs after date of death is end of March 2026. I've actually asked for an internal review. I'm thinking by the time they get round to it, it would be about March next year anyhoo

 

Admirably Panglossian, John.

 

I've crashed through the year mark with a failure of grace:

Dear Mod Personnel Access Team,

According to my records, this FOI request has still not been fulfilled after more than one year of waiting, the initial application having been submitted on 05/10/2024.

I am sure I need not remind you that this is far, far in excess of the duration mandated under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and even longer than the generous 10-12 months cited in your earlier communication.

This situation, I might add, is aggravated by my awareness of a considerable number of similar requests that have been submitted months after my own and processed sooner.

I should, therefore, be most grateful if you would write back at your very earliest convenience with either the records that have been requested or some remarkable justification for your failure to provide them in a timely manner. Given that it is now over three years since the first tranche of service records appeared in the National Archive Catalogue, an extraordinary weight of demand can no longer be cited as valid grounds for your failure to meet your legal obligation; whatever level of demand you find yourselves labouring under has long since established itself as 'ordinary', and steps should already have been taken to manage it.

Yours Faithfully,
"Charley Fortnum"

 

Brilliant Charley.

Fingers crossed for you, always,

Jim.