Missing in Action casualties Arnhem

I am still looking for info about those missing at Arnhem, for 170 of them I am still looking for any information or documentation about what happened to him, so any kind of info, about those missing would be most welcome, and hopeful when research going will be able to name 1 or 2 in a new edition of the Roll of honour to come in the next few years

 

I have heard tales of captured men being shot.
My bro-in-laws dad was captured at a hospital in Arnhem and he had a tale of men being lined-up against a wall.
He was saved by the persistance of a dutch woman who i think they are still in touch with.
I have never heard anyone on this forum mention executions but i dont think he was shooting a line.
Could some of the missing have been disappeared to cover a war crime?

 

So far I haven't come across this (for Arnhem), it was mentioned for Anthony Cotterell the War Correspondent, but as he died as a POW, and was buried as unknown officer and was later identified. There was also a story of a dutch farmer that British POWs were murdered in the cellar of his farm, but no evidence of that was found after the war.
Lt Cambier and Lt Bussell who were shot by the Germans after there captured were know to be buried near that house, at the same day also a few jewish people were murdered and their bodies were buried and covered with acid lime (not sure of the british name) but not the bodies of both lieutenants I think in most cases the Germans didn't care at all to cover it up.

 

So far I haven't come across this (for Arnhem), it was mentioned for Anthony Cotterell the War Correspondent, but as he died as a POW, and was buried as unknown officer and was later identified. There was also a story of a dutch farmer that British POWs were murdered in the cellar of his farm, but no evidence of that was found after the war.
Lt Cambier and Lt Bussell who were shot by the Germans after there captured were know to be buried near that house, at the same day also a few jewish people were murdered and their bodies were buried and covered with acid lime (not sure of the british name) but not the bodies of both lieutenants I think in most cases the Germans didn't care at all to cover it up.

Thanks Phillip,
I will try to follow up with my bro-in-law,but i am a bit at arms length with my sister at the moment,so a little awkward...... large family= somtimes tricky!!
I am amazed it did`nt happen more often,did`nt Hitler order not to take "terror troops" prisoner?

 

I am no Arnhem expert (just an 'average' interested party) but I am under the impression that captured Airborne were generally relatively well treated by the Germans, including SS since they respected the determined resistance.
I am prepared to be proven wrong, I often am!

Mike

 

From what I've read Mike this was generally true with regard to the German troops actually in Arnhem and Oosterbeek who had been fighting. However, once the POW's were away from the front-line and further back down the chain as it were, this wasn't always the case.........

All the best..........

 

their bodies were buried and covered with acid lime (not sure of the british name)

- 'Quicklime'

I remember my dad saying that it was used extensively in Germany during 1945 in the burial pits for bombing casualties as towns were cleared. It has the advantage of minimising the smell.

 

Hi Phillip,
Just thought i would follow up with on the execution story that has been around for some time in our family.
I have spoken with my brother-in-law (origin of the story) and this is what REALLY happend.
His father (Lt P Allenby RAMC 1st Airborne)was in a hospital actually assisting in an operation when Germans burst in with machine guns ready(someone had already been shot on the steps of hospital) it was very nasty for a bit until a nurse stepped forward and calmed the situation down.
Bro-in-laws fathers has been dead for some time and the story has grown into the "up against the wall story that was told to me!
It goes to show how the truth can be bent over the years,i dont think anyone in the family meant any mischief but it does make you think
I think the whole thing was cleared up by other members of this forum
The nurse was given an award for her bravery

 

Hi Phillip,
Just thought i would follow up with on the execution story that has been around for some time in our family.
I have spoken with my brother-in-law (origin of the story) and this is what REALLY happend.
His father (Lt P Allenby RAMC 1st Airborne)was in a hospital actually assisting in an operation when Germans burst in with machine guns ready(someone had already been shot on the steps of hospital) it was very nasty for a bit until a nurse stepped forward and calmed the situation down.
Bro-in-laws fathers has been dead for some time and the story has grown into the "up against the wall story that was told to me!
It goes to show how the truth can be bent over the years,i dont think anyone in the family meant any mischief but it does make you think
I think the whole thing was cleared up by other members of this forum
The nurse was given an award for her ravery

Niall Cherry asked me to investigate this incident a few years ago and I had the great pleasure of meeting Peter Allenby's widow and son (Chris) who provided me with a wealth of information.
The Dutch nurse in question was Marijke Stuyt who was awarded the King's Medal for Courage in the Cause of Freedom, I have been unable to obtain a copy of the citation for this award but I have been told by a person that was reading from the file that it was for helping Allied soldiers to Escape from St Elisabeth's hospital and not for saving soldiers from a firing squad.
If you read Lipmann Kessel's book Surgeon at Arms I am sure that you will recognise what may have been the incident that gave rise to this story. In his book Kessel mistakenly refers to Marijke as the daughter of the Hospital Director (Hengel?) in fact she was the daughter of one of the Doctors working there.
Her medal is (or was before the changes) on display in the Airborne Museum being presented to them on her death by her family. Chris Allenby attended her funeral.
John

 

Niall Cherry asked me to investigate this incident a few years ago and I had the great pleasure of meeting Peter Allenby's widow and son (Chris) who provided me with a wealth of information.
The Dutch nurse in question was Marijke Stuyt who was awarded the King's Medal for Courage in the Cause of Freedom, I have been unable to obtain a copy of the citation for this award but I have been told by a person that was reading from the file that it was for helping Allied soldiers to Escape from St Elisabeth's hospital and not for saving soldiers from a firing squad.
If you read Lipmann Kessel's book Surgeon at Arms I am sure that you will recognise what may have been the incident that gave rise to this story. In his book Kessel mistakenly refers to Marijke as the daughter of the Hospital Director (Hengel?) in fact she was the daughter of one of the Doctors working there.
Her medal is (or was before the changes) on display in the Airborne Museum being presented to them on her death by her family. Chris Allenby attended her funeral.
John

Thanks John,
It was Niall Cherrys book that bought everything back to mind.
I found a signed copy on e-bay and tipped off Chris to buy it,i did`nt know that Marijke had passed.Rachal Allenby is still with us,she is quite a character
Rob

 

Have found a relative of an officer missing at Arnhem, will followed it up after my return to London next week, but still can use more information of documentation about those missing.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by horsapassenger
Niall Cherry asked me to investigate this incident a few years ago and I had the great pleasure of meeting Peter Allenby's widow and son (Chris) who provided me with a wealth of information.
The Dutch nurse in question was Marijke Stuyt who was awarded the King's Medal for Courage in the Cause of Freedom, I have been unable to obtain a copy of the citation for this award but I have been told by a person that was reading from the file that it was for helping Allied soldiers to Escape from St Elisabeth's hospital and not for saving soldiers from a firing squad.
If you read Lipmann Kessel's book Surgeon at Arms I am sure that you will recognise what may have been the incident that gave rise to this story. In his book Kessel mistakenly refers to Marijke as the daughter of the Hospital Director (Hengel?) in fact she was the daughter of one of the Doctors working there.
Her medal is (or was before the changes) on display in the Airborne Museum being presented to them on her death by her family. Chris Allenby attended her funeral.
John

Thanks John,
It was Niall Cherrys book that bought everything back to mind.
I found a signed copy on e-bay and tipped off Chris to buy it,i did`nt know that Marijke had passed.Rachal Allenby is still with us,she is quite a character
Rob

Peter A had married Rachel in about May that year and was a prolific letter writer.....he even wrote one on the plane to Arnhem to her and gave it to one of the Ameircan crew to post for him on their return......this arrived within a couple of days at St Thomas's Hospital where she worked as a nurse.....he also wrote many letters from the SEH and these were smuggled back by the Dutch underground.......there cannot be many men at Arnhem who worte letters back at the time and were delivered!!!!!

 

Dear sirs,

After reading this forum i couldn't help myself from leaving a short message. The "Dutch nurse in question" (Marijke Stuyt) was actually my grandmother, and the stories above remind me of the stories my dad used to tell me about my grandmother. If there are stil any questions please let me know, perhaps there are some things me and my family can clear up.

 

Hello BWvanHees,
First of all,i would like to pay tribute to your amazing grandmother.
To have found herself in such a situation during a conflict must of been extremely frightening.And then to have behaved so bravely is incredible.
You must have been very proud of her.
I am the brother-in-law of Christopher Allenby,who is the son of Capt Peter Allenby who was saved by your grandmother.
The story of his ,and others,rescue has been know of in our family for some years now.
Capt Allenbys wife Rachel is still with us although very frail.And i know she had met and corresponded with your grandmother over the years.
Capt Allenby became a GP (doctor) after the war and was responsible for the lives of many people,so you can see how great your grandmothers deed became.
Maybe you can shed a little light on the exact circumstances of the incident?
Our family story is that some captured soldiers were under threat of execution and your grandmother persuaded the German Officers to spare some of their lives.
Do you know if anyone was actually shot during this incident?
It would constitute a war crime if it happend,and if so, was anybody ever prosecuted?
Just for the record,my father was in 6th Airborne and played a tiny part in the liberation of Holland.
Thank you,
Rob Martin

 

Rob

Following Marijke's death when the family donated her King's Medal for Courage in the Cause of Freedom to the Airborne Museum, Hartenstein, in Oosterbeek I was told of the story from the family and asked to investigate the alleged events.
I met Christopher and his Mother, Rachael at her home in Poole and discussed the story with them
Unfortunately I found no evidence of any incident relating to a firing squad but there was an indication that she was involved in helping the escape of Airborne soldiers from St Elisabeth Hospital. You will see from my post in 2010 above that, at that time, I was experiencing considerable difficulty in obtaining the citation for the award of the KMC, with blanket refusal coming from the Cabinet Office and the Information Commisioner unable to assist.
Thankfully I have now been able to obtain a copy of the recommendation for her award which indicates that she acted as an interpreter and liaison between the Airborne Medical staff and the Dutch helpers. She is described as "tireless and fearless inn the handling of any situation which confronted the British surgeons". It also talks of her "High handed attitude to their captors" and goes on to confirm her resistance work and her assistance in enabling soldiers to escape.
I did send a PM to BW van Hees but have not had any reply

John

 

Hi John,
i am sure that the situation at the hospital must of been extremely tense ,to put it mildly, and the threat of death may have transmuted into the firing squad story.( i believe A RAMC officer was shot and killed by a drunken German officer on the steps of the hospital).
I once met a group of my fathers colleagues from 2FOU and whilst listening to one of them re-telling an incident he was involved in,another whispered an aside to me " I often wonder if i was even in the same war!!"
They were all in the same unit and had similar experiences but ,with the passage of time memories can be very fluid,
Something i suffer from myself from time to time.
it would be interesting to get the grandsons perspective of the events.
all the best,
Rob

 

Rob

The murder that you talk about was of Captain Brownscombe, Medical Officer from the South Staffords, who was shot on the steps of the Municipal Hospital (Not St Elisabeths).

As regards the different perspectives of battle my Father often told me that, in battle, anybody that told you what happened more than a few feet from their own positions had probably read or heard about it - that area was the only area that you were interested in.

I think that if you read Lipmann Kessel's book Surgeon at Arms you will recognise the incident which gives rise to the story. Although not directly identified I am fairly certain that it was Marijke that defused the situation that he describes.

John

 

Dr Stuyt at the Hospital

I believe there was also an incident where Doctor Stuyt told Germans to hand over their weapons because they were not allowed to enter the Hospital with weapons according to the Geneva convention, wich they subsequently did. Could have been the same incident.

 

Ronald

I don't think that is correct - if you refer to the reports of the medical officers that were allowed to remain and work at St Elisabeths hospital they refer to the German guards being armed and (according to Lipmann Kessel) "were wandering around the hospital, poking their guns into cupboards and under patient's blankets".

John

 

I have really enjoyed the comments on this post, another history lesson, thank you for sharing your views . Elsie