Missing gliders of Operation Tonga D-Day

Discussion in 'Airborne' started by brithm, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Ben,

    You have a good collection of glider photos. So either Steve has made a slip up in his listing or it's Glider 221 according to him which landed on LZN by mistake - don't know? I've looked around the Vimont area using Box 303 and have still not located a horsa. However it's easy to get lost as the area is not familiar to me. Just to confuse matters here's another table that puts glider pilots Ridgeway and Foster in CN 219:

    http://www.6juin1944.com/assaut/aeropgb/en_page.php?page=tonga

    Regards ...
     
  2. brithm

    brithm Senior Member

    Ridgeway and Foster were in glider Chalk Number 221.

    England & Graham landed on DZ 'N' in Chalk Number 219.

    221 landed somewhere near Le Marais de Vimont at La Vielle Eglise, the high ground behind could be St Pair/Jauville in the North or Le Fresne in the east.

    brithm
     

    Attached Files:

    Ben14 and Cee like this.
  3. Ben14

    Ben14 Active Member

    nice pictures,

    so , on the 5th pictures this is the "ferme des marais" north of Vimont

    [​IMG]
     
    Cee and brithm like this.
  4. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Ben,

    La Ferme de Marais - how did you know that? There is something there near the edge of the field where Ben pointed out in the map. If that's the glider it's quite close to Vimont to the south.

    Box-0303-7-June-1944-Vimont.jpg

    Regards ...
     
    brithm likes this.
  5. Ben14

    Ben14 Active Member

  6. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Ben,

    You have a sharp eye as that's just an excellent photo analysis. If we had a better quality aerial instead of samples how the tail section is situated beside the wing would be clearly visible.

    Regards ...
     
    brithm likes this.
  7. Ben14

    Ben14 Active Member

    brithm likes this.
  8. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Ben,

    It looks like one. I'll check around.
     
    brithm likes this.
  9. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Ben,

    Yeah it's just west of Goustranville. The edges of the top fields in your aerial have been cut off by Autoroute A13 which has since been built through the area. In the one I have the "object" is obscured by shadows from the western sun, so not very helpful. I'm afraid to quote anything as it has generally proven wrong in the past. We should establish if it's actually a glider first.

    Regards ...

    Edit: A13
     
    brithm likes this.
  10. brithm

    brithm Senior Member

    Ben14,

    Truly great find, the aerials do not appear to show a clear shot of the glider. NCAP's aerial are from the 15th June 1944 and are of a better quality but do not show the glider clearly.

    Laurier aerials that I found of the Vimont area are not in the best condition and worse for wear taken on the 17th August 1944, I have attached them anyway.

    Wonder if any unit in this area would have noted or recognised a glider around here?

    You can see today the copse of trees have disappeared now.

    I have also attached a close up of the 'Goustranville' glider.

    brithm
     

    Attached Files:

    Ben14 and Cee like this.
  11. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Brithm,

    Nicely done comparison on the Vimont site. Did they they burn the horsa as it does seem rather dark? As for the Goustranville aerial I don't know what to think. I'm back and forth on that one.
     
  12. Ben14

    Ben14 Active Member

    Thank Brithm for the pictures

    so, I dont think it's a glider for Goustranville picture ,

    but there was a glider in an orchard on Gourstranville area


    Ben
     
    brithm likes this.
  13. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Flipped, cropped and zoomed in. If that's a horsa it had a spectacularly bad crack up. Where's the rest of it? I'm still not entirely convinced.

    Goustranville-2.jpg

    Regards ...
     
    BsP likes this.
  14. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Hi

    I found a slightly better photo of the La Cour Bellevue glider as first posted by brithm at a Spanish auction site.

    La Cour Bellevue Glider.jpg

    I think this was taken early on as the door in the side ramp is open but the ramp itself has not been lowered. There are two or three German soldiers at the front of the glider. So was the tail section removed or did it break off during landing? If this is CN 84 was there enough clearance to drive a jeep out? The serial on the tail is still not clear enough to make out.

    Regards ...
     
  15. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Michael P-C sent me this document which I'll post here. It may already be familiar to some of you. There's a lot of conflicting information on some of the 6th Airborne Div HQ gliders out of RAF Harwell in various sources, especially for CN 86 (LH.467) as noted in this doc.

    DSC_9474.JPG

    Regards
     
    brithm likes this.
  16. Ludo68000

    Ludo68000 6th Airborne D-Day

    Hi Chuck,

    yes this document can be found in WO361/512 CN157 file.
    At Grangues 4 gliders (CN74, CN77?, CN84, and CN90) landed or crash/landed, 2 aircraflts with 7th para sticks crashed (CN138 & 157) and one stick was dropped (CN156).
    Nearby (Dives Sur Mer) another Aircraft allocated to 7th Para crashed (CN154).
     
    Tricky Dicky likes this.
  17. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Ludo,

    I was wondering if instead of CN 90 it was CN 86 (LH 467) as shown in above doc that came down in the trees bordering the D27 road near the Chateau de Grangues. Brithm brought it to my attention in a past email sometime ago. I noticed the creator of the 591 (Antrim) Parachute Squadron site identifies it towards the bottom of the Grangues crash page has CN 90. However, as you can see many of the names listed are the same as CN 86. Just a thought.

    Regards ...
     
  18. Ludo68000

    Ludo68000 6th Airborne D-Day

    Hi Chuck,

    CN86 (LH467) seems to be the correct CN.
    In the missing personnel files (WO361/504) it is classified as CN86.
    I read CN90 for that glider many years ago (20) when documents were so easy to access.
    About the Grangues gliders I am still puzzled about the identification of CN77 and CN84.
    thier location is certain and can be seen on Air photos.
    I initially thought CN77(LH494) was the St Evroult glider and CN84 was La Cour Bellevue glider, but it could be the other way round.
    I need to find clues to know which is which.
     
  19. Cee

    Cee Senior Member Patron

    Ludo,

    Wally Troutt's assertion that there were engineers onboard the glider that swooped down close by him in La Cour Bellevue field is one clue that has led to the belief it must be CN84, which in fact did carry a number of engineers, though not as many as he claims:

    "Dans le planeur - nous L'apprendrions plus tard - Il y avait huit ingenieurs de notre Division."

    The port wing of the glider in the photo above appears to have been sheared off by anti-glider pole on landing. F/O Rascheed, the rear gunner on the tug aircraft, claims in his debriefing CN84 was struck by flak causing damage to either the port wing or tailplane. As can be seen most of the port tailplane is missing, though there is something nearby on the ground. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say the tailplane of a horsa is enormous.

    Hopefully someday a higher resolution photo will turn up and reveal the serial number. It's curious though there is no mention of a jeep in the accounts of Troutt or Mold. Capt. Maynard must have been captured fairly early on to have been spotted by Major Gubbins on June 6th.

    The aerials for the other glider to the west (St. Evroult) are not the best. It does look like the tail section is still attached.

    Regards ...
     
  20. Ludo68000

    Ludo68000 6th Airborne D-Day

    in Wally TROUTT account, he does not mention La Cour Bellevue field clearly, does he?
    Yes he mentions the Engineers, so surely he meet the pilots and passengers of CN84.
    In CN77, they were only signalmen. The Saint Evroult glider is in one piece and it seems there is no visible damage on the glider
     

Share This Page