Met Police,War Reserve Police Constable: Fritz George William Stump.

Discussion in 'War Cemeteries & War Memorial Research' started by CL1, Feb 19, 2018.

  1. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Met Police,War Reserve Police Constable: Fritz George William Stump.died 29/7/40


    I contacted The Police Roll of Honour after finding this headstone in Malden Manor (St Johns) to see if he did die on duty as stated on the headstone.
    He died of natural causes in the street but if proven he was on duty he will be included in their WW2 Roll of Honour.They are checking to see if there was a post-mortem which hopefully will give more detail.
    Thanks to TD for finding out further information enabling me to give them as much detail as possible.




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  2. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Presumably TD gave you the BMD etc info
    Stump, Fritz George William (otherwise George William of 2, High Street, Esher, Surrey died 29 July 1940 at 59a Malden Road, New Malden, Surrey. Administration Llandudno 14 October to Edith Rebecca Ellen Stump, widow. Effects £214 7s 5d.
    Name: Fritz William G Stump. Registration Year: 1908. Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
    Registration district: Paddington, London. Volume: 1a. Page: 60.
    Married Edith R E Holyoak on 23 December 1933. George/William was a commercial traveller, as was his father Walter Henry Frederick Stump.
    Edith's father Percy James Holyoak, a bank clerk.
     
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  3. harkness

    harkness Well-Known Member

    Marriages Dec 1933
    Stump Fritz W G Holyoak Kingston 2a 1115
    Holyoak Edith R E Stump Kingston 2a 1115

    No children.

    1939 REGISTER TRANSCRIPTION
    2 High Street , Esher U.D., Surrey
    NAME DOB OCCUPATION
    George W Stump 28 Dec 1901 Manager Of Shop dealing with Wireless and Bicycles
    Edith R E Bullock (Stump) 01 Jun 1905 Unpaid Domestic Duties

    Marriages Sep 1956
    STUMP Edith R E BULLOCK Surrey Mid.E. 5g 439
    Bullock Frederick E STUMP Surrey Mid.E. 5g 439
     
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  4. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Thank you for the input just awaiting coroners report and any news articles that can relate to him being on duty at the time of his death to enable him to be included on the Police Roll of Honour
    Regards
    Clive
     
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  5. Mr Jinks

    Mr Jinks Bit of a Cad

    The MEPO diaries are at the NA. The ones available to download free mention no casualties on the day of death but mention casualties in the days before but not by name (killed/wounded)

    Kyle
     
  6. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    thanks Kyle we checked them too.
    He died of natural causes in the street just trying to find out if he was on duty or going to or from the police station
     
  7. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    If anyone can add anything further I would really appreciate it.
    The Police Roll of Honour are currently very busy They did not have this PC on their list but to include him they require confirmation that he was either on duty or going on/off duty when he died.
    I am attempting to get a coroners report which might add more info.

    thank you
    regards
    Clive
     
  8. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
    Name: Fritz George William Stump
    [George William Stump]
    Death Date: 29 Jul 1940
    Death Place: Surrey, England
    Probate Date: 14 Oct 1940
    Registry: Llandudno
    31874_221805-00442.jpg
    These details say he lived at 2 High St, New Malden but 'died' at 59a Malden Road

    To confirm his home address:
    1939 England and Wales Register
    Name: George W Stump
    Gender: Male
    Marital Status: Married
    Birth Date: 28 Dec 1907
    Residence Year: 1939
    Address: 2 High St Esher
    Residence Place: Esher, Surrey, England
    Occupation: Manager of Shop Dealing with Wireless & Byuck??
    Schedule Number: 51
    Sub Schedule Number: 1
    Enumeration District: DMJA
    Registration district: 30-2
    Inferred Spouse: Edith R E Stump
    Household Members:
    Name
    George W Stump
    Edith R E Stump

    I would assume knowing his time of death would help answer the question, as he seems to run a shop probably open say 08:00 - 18:00 ?, is it possible to find out is there was a shop at 59 Malden Road, and you travellers of the streets of London could tell us the distance between the 2 address's etc

    TD

    Could this be the Police Stn - says on the High St - Demolition of historic police station begins

    According to this the first air raid in Malden was Sept 1940 - The 1st Raid - Malden Blitz 1940 - so unlikely he was killed in that :blush:

    Have checked through Civilian deaths for 29 July 1940 and only 1 result:

    Dorothy Rose Mullins abt 1912 29 Jul 1940 Lambeth, London, England
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
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  9. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    from the Police records
    Stump died of a brain haemorrhage away from home but near his station at New Malden, which suggests he may have been on patrol duty but may also have been travelling to or from work. There was a post-mortem and inquest on 31st July, which found it to be a 'Natural Death'.

    to be included in the Police Roll of Honour he needs to have died whilst on duty
     
  10. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Doesnt your last post answer the question??

    TD
     
  11. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    it suggests he was on duty but the PRH wont accept it unless confirmed.
    The headstone states died on duty so his family believe that to be the case but PRH dont have the records to state he was on duty so unless confirmed they wont include him
     
  12. Steve Mac

    Steve Mac Very Senior Member

    Just a couple of thoughts.

    In those days people used to clock-in/out. There would likely be a station attendance book/register but whether this has survived over the years must be doubtful.

    Do you have his time of death? If so, it should be possible to ascertain the station shifts and whether his death was after his shift had started?!

    Best,

    Steve.
     
  13. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    hello Steve
    very good points but records did not survive for this particular chap and as TD posted the old police station has long gone.

    from PRH
    To get this on the national Roll and the Metropolitan Police Book of Remembrance we still require corroboration of his duty status (which the few police records existing do not confirm). As there was an inquest I would expect a local news report, which would give the circumstances surrounding his death and hopefully corroborate that he was on duty at the time
     
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  14. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    would be useful but I also guess the inquest report itself should say roughly what time he died etc, is it possible to obtain copies of inquest reports??????

    TD
     
  15. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    according to the PRH yes you can obtain them but Sutton archives
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
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  16. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Sutton archives replied and not sure if they have the relevant papers archived so sent them more detail but not hopeful awaiting to confirm if they cover the area he died in.
    The Police Roll of Honour are to busy to assist further and will not commemorate unless he is confirmed on duty or going to/from work.A lot of their early records were destroyed so no assistance there.
    in the meantime would anyone be able to add anything further or have access to local newspapers


    Fritz George William Stump, Metropoliian Police War Reservist Constable.

    Date of death 29/7/40 in a garage at the rear of 59a Malden Road,New Malden,Surrey.

    thank you

    regards
    Clive
     
  17. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Did you include a photo of the headstone when contacting the PRH?
    I don't think that phrasing would have been chosen UNLESS he was On Duty as it would surely have been challenged at the time if that wasn't the case. I realise that there is often a tendency to make more of something, but for a Police widow to do so, and in those times, would seem unlikely.

    Whilst records are no longer available to PROVE it, then they also cannot DISPROVE it either.
    Does the PRH know for a certainty that 100% of those it commemorates were On Duty too?

    He was a "War Reserve" policeman, who already had a full workload, yet rose to do his duty in ensuring the streets were safe, that people were helped in their time of need and distress, yet the PRH are "too busy" to assist further....
    Unfortunately, that seems an all too familiar response from any police source these days
     
  18. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Don'tre member

    Would the coroners report cover what he was wearing at the time of his death??, would police in those days normally go to and from the station/work in their uniform, I would guess yes, but not 100%.
    I am assuming somewhere there are records of what he was wearing, which may answer the question

    I have to agree with Kevin in that someone doing what he did in those days seems totally let down by those beauracrats of today - I hope thios is not to political which may lead to this thread being closed under the 'Masonic Institute Rule' or what ever the stupid thing is called

    TD
     
  19. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Yes Kevin included everything


    According to PRH they can only commemorate with proof
    they have been very helpful but have to follow process
    agree its a poor show but thats it

    however I shall not give up
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
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  20. CL1

    CL1 116th LAA and 92nd (Loyals) LAA,Royal Artillery Patron

    Sutton dont have anything
    Now contacted Kingston await reply
     

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