Once again, while reading "They Fought With What They Had", I came up with the interesting fact that during a December ´41 attack by B-17´s out of Batchelor Field, near Darwin, against Davao, Mindanao, several Messerschmitts were part of the defenses, actually attacking the Fortresses during their runs. Unfortunately, there are no references as to the model involved, but given that they are mentioned flying alongside your everyday Zeke, the inmediate thought is that they must have been 109´s. Was it a case of mistaken identity? Or did the Bf´s really make it to the Far East? Fascinating stuff.
The Millenium Falcon was there as well. Sorry, no bomb bay The edition I´m reading is a 1992 reprint by the Center for Air Force History, which I think would have been corrected hadn´t this references had some sort of a solid basis. Besides, there are more references a few chapters later, this time during the fight over Java, one of them about the positive identification of the wreck of a shot-down 110. Didn´t mention them at first because I haven´t reached those pages yet; had to take a look at the index to dig a little more on the subject. Maybe the work of a blockade-runner?
The Millenium Falcon was there as well. Za, I'm hoping you are trying to be funny because its coming across as rather sarcastic.
I found this book review mentioning Messerschmitts in the Pacific. I cannot vouch for the book as I have never read it. Hitler attacks Pearl Harbor: why the ... - Google Books Regards Tom
Brian Cull´s "Buffaloes over Singapore" also mentions engagements, this time fighter on fighter, over Malaya, in which Messerschmitts 109´s and 110´s were involved, at least as claimed by Commonwealth pilots. However, some of this statements seem to have been taken as excuses for the beating the RAF was taking back in those hectic days, considering that even in the face of the ugly truth, Japanese air power, both pilot skill and plane performance, was still considered an illusion.
There you are, it was externally very similar to the 109, and it even shared a version of the same engine, hence the misidentification. Kawasaki Ki-61 (Tony) Type 3 Fighter (Tony) Liquid Cooled Engine Most Japanese Army and Navy aircraft were equipped with radial engines, while the Tony was one of the first with a liquid cooled engine. In 1937 Kawasaki had purchased a licence to build the German Daimler Benz DB.601 engine, used in the Messerschmitt 109. Kawasaki revised and lightened the engine, creating their own new design in 1940 the Ha-40, inverted V-12 engine. Around this engine Kawasaki planned the Ki-60 fighter, the production design being a lighter aircraft designated the Ki-61. Mistaken For Messerchmidt Bf-109 Initially in combat, the Tony was thought to be a German Messerchmidt Bf-109, due to its similar siloette and inline engine. Later, Allied intelligence learned that this type was an entirely new Japan design. Translating my remark above, the 109 had as much likelihood of being present in the Phillipines as the MF. B)
Hiens were still in the prototype stage when war broke out, and were first encountered by allied flyers, in their production version, over New Guinea, during the spring of ´43. In fact, some of the tests the design was put through involved P-40´s captured in the NEI and 109E´s (for Emily ) bought by the Japanese Army. Here´s a link on the subject: The Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien ("Tony") & Ki-100 The above site also mentions some german-made stuff used by the Japanese in their planes, such as 20mm Mausers, not taking into consideration that the Tony´s engine was a direct derivative of the DB-601.
Hmm, from your link: In fact, the Ki-61 was so different from other Japanese fighters that when the type was first encountered in combat over New Guinea in June 1943, the Allies thought it wasn't a Japanese design at all. At first they believed it was a copy of the German Messerschmitt Me-109, then suspected it was a copy of the Italian Macchi C.202 Foglore or similar Italian fighter. For this reason they gave it the code-name "Antonio", or "Tony", though by the summer of 1943 the Allies were convinced the Ki-61 was in fact a Japanese design. Also: Messerschmitt Bf-109E-3, of which two had been bought by the IJA from the Germans Some people's aircraft recognition abilities were/are rather poor, and for good reason the US removed the red circle from it's beginning of the war insignia: it was being easily confounded with the Hinomaru, despite the white star around it, leading to excessive friendly fire incidents. "It has a meatball so it's a Jap!". And to further add to the confusion, some recognition manuals images I've seen bear only small similitude with the originals. Even "detailed" drawings for modelling purposes (see below) at the time show glaring contour errors, I remember for instance William Wylam's drawing of the B-29 with an entirely different tail deformed in purpose for security reasons. I suppose the likelihood of confirming the Phillipines 109 rumor will be slim. My first contact with these drawings was in Model Airplane News magazines my brother used to buy second-hand some 40 years ago, dated from the fifties. I still have them Beautiful detailed drawings, but as I said with some misleading errors, don't ask me the purpose... During wartime there was an industry in making recognition models made out of solid wood, based on iffy 3-views released by the gubmint. An interesting subject in itself, see here and here.
Hmm, from your link: Also: Some people's aircraft recognition abilities were/are rather poor, and for good reason the US removed the red circle from it's beginning of the war insignia: it was being easily confounded with the Hinomaru, despite the white star around it, leading to excessive friendly fire incidents. "It has a meatball so it's a Jap!". And to further add to the confusion, some recognition manuals images I've seen bear only small similitude with the originals. Even "detailed" drawings for modelling purposes (see below) at the time show glaring contour errors, I remember for instance William Wylam's drawing of the B-29 with an entirely different tail deformed in purpose for security reasons. I suppose the likelihood of confirming the Phillipines 109 rumor will be slim. My first contact with these drawings was in Model Airplane News magazines my brother used to buy second-hand some 40 years ago, dated from the fifties. I still have them Beautiful detailed drawings, but as I said with some misleading errors, don't ask me the purpose... During wartime there was an industry in making recognition models made out of solid wood, based on iffy 3-views released by the gubmint. An interesting subject in itself, see here and here. Well, I did mention that this whole thing could be a "mistaken identity" case, but there´s one fact that prevents it from being so: The Tony was the only japanese-designed inline-engined fighter to ever see action wearing Hinomarus, and its debut took place over New Guinea in '43... Japanese Fighter Planes of WW2 - A6M Zero and Ki-43 Oscar Also, reports seem to have come from all over ABDA, as stated in both books I mentioned, one about the RAF and another about the USAAC (FEAF); two different sources, referring to pilots trained under very different schemes, including aircraft recognition, with different levels of combat experience... It may sound a bit philosophical, but there´s has got to be more on this than a mere mistake in profile reading.
It may sound a bit philosophical, but there´s has got to be more on this than a mere mistake in profile reading Aircraft identification under combat stresses is highly problematic at the best of times; during the debriefing after (IIRC) the high-loss Schweinfurt raid during Black Week, the USAAF crews claimed strongly they were attacked among other things by Stukas and by FW 189s....!
USAAF crews claimed strongly they were attacked among other things by Stukas and by FW 189s....! Well, there´s a thread somewhere in this crazy little place about Stukas attacking bomber formations with bombing techniques...
Yep, I know that was tried - but in thus case it was turret and waist gunners debrieing that THEY had been buzzed by Stukas and recce aircraft!
This is a bit like the Spitfire syndrome, all German fighter pilots say the were shot down by a spit, in the Philipines very few Zeros took part, as it was a Naval aircraft but nearly all the American pilots claim they were shot down by one. If all the British tank commanders who claim to have been knocked out by a Tiger were telling the truth there would have been a hell of a lot more Tigers to have to be built. Funny enough the Japs did buy two tigers but there was no way to deliver them same goes fot 109\110 altho they did fly a route through Russia a few times with Junkers JU90s
Once again, while reading "They Fought With What They Had", I came up with the interesting fact that during a December ´41 attack by B-17´s out of Batchelor Field, near Darwin, against Davao, Mindanao, several Messerschmitts were part of the defenses, actually attacking the Fortresses during their runs. I must have missed this at the time however where did the B-17 refuel on the way back as Davao on Mindanao is 4700 kms from Batchelor Airfield which is about 70kms south of Darwin and the range of a B-17 with a 6000lb bombload is only 3200 kms. Anybody have any info on this?
Hope these are of interest I believe they are from the Messerschmitt book by Chris Banyai-Riepl.Five Bf 109 aircraft were supplied to the Japanese for evaluation work and greatly influenced the development of the Ki-61 Messerschmitt in Evaluation Scheme. Messercchmitt in Japanese livery with Ground Crew. Ki-61 Verrieres
Nice find Verriers, Is there any date for that picture? I assume if it "influenced" the design the had it before '43?
