Evening all, Have been informed by MODMO that the other half's grandad is due 2x more awards. So, being impatient, I thought I would ask what they're most likely to be, while I wait.... Know next to nothing about him except he was in the army and on ships, so I'm guessing an RA DEMS gunner? (Service record request is about to go in the post). Has previously been awarded 1939-1945 Star, Atlantic Star, War Medal (we don't know where these 3 ended up). Any thoughts on what may be inbound? I thought maybe an Arctic Star, as it's a recent thing, but no idea what other awards were issued later than the original 3? This is purely speculation. Will report back when confirmed. Thanks
Afraid that doesn't narrow it down much! What about a name or number? At least that would enable someone to start looking, where did he come from, have you tried local newspapers? What about photos showing insignia?
All we know is that, his name was Stanley Jones, born in Manchester in 1923 (there was another DEMS gunner who was called Stanley Jones who was KIA in Op Demon, but that's not him). Mainly asking what awards may have been awarded/instituted after the original 3 were issued, rather than all 5 together. Thanks
Hi, Firstly, I find it unusual that the MOD would contact you about his medals, unless of course you had contacted them with a query - they are snowed under with work I believe. The Arctic Star would have to be applied for so I doubt very much they have looked through his file and said he should be awarded that medal. No, that is not how the system works. Best wait to see what they have to say and of course see what his service record says. Bear in mind that RA, D.E.M.S. gunners are difficult to research as their service record does not usuallly state their actual sea service only the fact that he was with the Maritime Regt. The gunner will have a maritime card which will detail his ships and dates etc. I hope you get the maritime card as that will make your research so much easier. If you don't have or get this card then you will have to rely on Merchant Navy records to find him and you need to begin with a known ship preferably at the end of his service so you can do back tracking using crew agreements as the agreement usually names a previous ship. Oh and you need a bit of luck too! That all said - something to condsider after you get his military records - I have a Stanley Jones b. 1923 who served as a D.E.M.S. gunner in 1944 aboard the ship PORT ALMA. Joined on 16 May 1944 at Liverpool and headed off to the USA and New Zealand arriving back home in Liverpool in August 1944. Now he could be a RN gunner or he could be your man the only way to be sure would be to obtain the 1944 crew agreeement for PORT ALMA which will be held at TNA Kew. You can let me know if you need the file references for that. Regards Hugh
Rich, possibly, I'm just not sure why he wouldn't have been awarded it with the other 3, have seen plenty where they're all together, don't know why he wouldn't have qualified when the original trio were being issued.
Hugh, We have applied, this is off the back of their response, which they have realised that the sibling that signed the paperwork wasn't the eldest NOK, so they have confirmed the existing issued medals, but need to send off a new set of forms from the eldest sibling to issue the two unawarded medals. It's only taking about a month for MODMO requests, unlike the 12 month plus for the service record requests. Thank you for the pointers, have found another Stanley Jones, who was a DEMS gunner, but he died in 1941, so PORT ALMA could be somewhere to start. Hopefully when we get the medals sorted, it will give us a service number to start the research before the service records come through.
Nailed it Rich Payne, Defence Medal and Arctic Star, both on their way. Already issued 1939-45 Star, Atlantic Star and War Medal. Also have a pair of service numbers now, 3607418 and then 22809793 post-SWW. The request for the service record has been sent off, now just the year-plus wait to see if they hold anything of use
Amazingly, his service records came back just before Christmas. No sign of the 2x that I sent off in July 2020 though! Did 18 months in the Home Guard before joining the regs in 1941 to the Border Regt, transferred to RA and 6th MRA in January 1943.
Yeah, have dropped them an email quoying another post here about WO435 and 436. Will report back if anything comes of it
All aboard the merry-go-round... "You will have to contact the National Archives regarding the Maritime Cards" ......
TNA do not have them - it is disappointing that they have the two references in their catalogue WO 435 and 436 but I have already contacted them and was told they were at the MOD. They may be in the process of being transferred but the lack of clarity from both is annoying and un-professional in my opinion. The cards do exist and there are a few service records that I have seen that do have cards which really do help in establishing the full details of a Maritime RA gunner. Without that card, you will need to go via the MN records route which is time consuming, could be expensive if not able to visit Kew and is not guaranteed to succeed. Regards Hugh
Luckily I get down to Kew a few times a year, so would add to the list. Not really having a starting point would make things difficult.... Would have to try and work out potentials with the few details I have and try to cross ships off a list. Horrendous task I'm sure.
The dates are wonderfully confusing in the card too haha. I think 02-03/09/1944 and 21/03/45 are my likely start points.
Next time you go to Kew check out the 1944 Crew Agreement for PORT ALMA official number, 160615, held in piece BT 381/2930. If it is the correct man with a bit of luck his previous ship will be also be mentioned. Hopefully there will be enough identifying information to prove he is the correct man. Regards Hugh