Mauny cemetery,Normandie.

Hello to all.

Yesterday,while having a promenade after a thick typical french lunch(...),i paid a visit to a the tiny cemetery in the village of Mauny.
I came across a lonely grave,with a simple wooden cross and an epitaph"ici repose un soldat Anglais"(here remains an English soldier).
I was extremely surprised.No CWGC signal on the cemetery wall,no stone marker as seen in the cemeteries around there.
The castle of Mauny is sadly famous for the fierce fightings of August 44.
Does any member knows here why this unknown soldier stays here without any conventional marker?
Thanks in advance!

 

Hello Seb,nice to see you posting.

I think this grave would have been a temporary one originating from when the soldier lost his life.At some point postwar, the CWGC transferred casualty remains to concentrated cemeteries from isolated cemeteries,although this was not a fixed rule as regards France and many casualties were left in communal cemeteries with a CWGC headstone marking their graves.I would think that in this case,the casualty's remains were transferred to a CWGC cemetery plot but the temporary marker was not removed.I would think that there should be some information covering the case in the CWGC files.

No date on the grave,I presume.

I remember some years ago seeing a RAF crew buried in a Maquis cemetery in the Morvan.They had been on an op to Dijon in August 1944 and were brought down in the Morvan.Their graves were marked with a painted wooden cross.and for the visitor,it would appear that it was the crew's resting place.Knowing that CWGC would not leave a casualty in what I deemed to be a temporary grave,I followed up the case and found that the crew remains had been transferred in 1961 to a Nantes CWGC plot,some 200 miles or so from where they lost their lives.Yet 50 years after the crew had lost their lives,their temporary grave markers still existed in a Maquis forest cemetery.

(Incidentally it fooled a travel writer whose article on the Morvan mentioned the crew graves in this Morvan forest as though they still existed)

 

I believe that the 'Highway Decorators' - 51st (Highland) Division - fought in and around Mauny, and that a memorial is to be unveiled to their fallen there. The latter may hold a clue(s)!

Best,

Steve.

 

Any pictures?

 

a bit of info here but nothing on the cemetery

After 12 long weeks of ferocious fighting in the Normandy bridgehead, the 51st Highland Division was to be rested after taking Lisieux, its final objective. 5th Black Watch was ordered to make its last attack on Mauny, stated to be a skirmish by comparison. ‘A’ company would lead the attack on the Chateau which was reported to be the strong point. When ‘A’ company came under fire and held up, ‘B’ company, led by Major Mirrielees, continued the attack from the flank and reached the Chateau. The combined strength of ‘A’ and ‘B’ companies soon forced the enemy to surrender. Intense shelling and mortaring around the Chateau however caused a lot of casualties.
During the battle for the Chateau ‘C’ and ‘D’ companies were ordered to attack Mauny village. There was some enemy resistance but this was small by comparison. It is known that Corporal Chapman, Major Mirrielees and George Hildred and possibly Sgt. Kirkcaldy were killed at the Chateau and that Corporal O’Keefe and L/Corporal Billington were probably killed in Mauny village.http://www.georgehildred.co.uk/memorial2.html

 

Link

http://www.fallenheroesofnormandy.org/Servicemen/Detail/19168

Kyle

 

I try to post the pic of this terrible grave..
Thanks to all for your enlightements!

 

Would this be something CWGC would be interested in? Would there be any burial records in the Church or local Mayors office?

Do we think it's 5 Black Watch? I'll grab the diary and missing men file if someone more experienced in the 1944 Normandy side of things wants to run with this?

 

I would definitely say send this query to CWGC. What's to say the graves concentration units did not get the original details of this burial. Considering the numbers of re-burials that were involved, there must be a number that slipped through the administrative cracks.

No missing Black Watch listed on the Bayeux Memorial for August 1944 though, so must be someone else.

 

Just for the "fun",have a look to besides who is this poor soul buried...
I don't believe i need to translate the tribute to you...
If this old guy from the Imperial Army could have imagined who would be his neighboor therer...

 

Can you find out if there is a date linked to the soldiers grave? That would help narrow things down immensely. Thinking outside of the box I wonder if his body was lifted to a CWGC cemetery after the war and the locals kept the plot as some kind of remembrance?

Seb you need to go back on a fact finding mission and speak to the locals and the vicar

 

No names ,no date on the cross,sadly.

Finally i have found back the pics i posted on another forum in order to describe the place Mauny,where my inlaw's are living.
Some are captioned.You will have a better idea of this very place.Pics were taken in June 2014,just after the visit of a former Medic of the Black Watch.

 

I believe i made decent pics this day.
The place around the castle is still very wild and woody.
While taking the pics i almost could feel what some of your boys felt there.A bit creepy.

 

I just had a phone call to the curator of the museum of the Chateau du Taillis,in Duclair,near the Seine.
Great place telling the story of the German retreat in 44.
The link to the museum:http://www.chateau-du-taillis.com/
For him,this grave could be either a memorial of the fights,let "as it" to commemorate the death of a Tommie,or a unknown English soldier burried by the frenchs in 1940 on the route to Saint Valery en Caux.Or even a airman,forgotten from everyone,deceased without recognition.In all case ,he his really amazed also.
He's gonna give me the coordinates of a man who's the official connoisseur of the combat at Mauny and their aftermath.This man is a friend of the last British survivor of this action this day.Will keep you informed.

 

Weather permitting I will have the 5 Black Watch diary on Thursday.

 

From the link provided by Kyle at Message #6:

* words in square brackets are my own.

Of the six 5th Bn Black Watch soldiers killed, four were initially buried near the CCS at Haut Croth (as detailed above). The two men not buried there were Corporal Harry Chapman and Sergeant Thomas Kirkcaldy.

Tom Renouf, who wrote ‘Black Watch’, first served in the 1st Bn Tyneside Scottish, 70th Infantry Brigade, 49th Infantry Division, until the 70th Infantry Brigade was broken up to provide reinforcements for other units. The 1st Bn Tyneside Scottish was a battalion of the Black Watch and so it was that a lot of the men were posted to the 5th or 7th Bns Black Watch on 24 August 1944. Tom Renouf was posted to 7 Platoon of ‘A’ Company, 5th Bn Black Watch, 153rd Infantry Brigade, 51st (Highland) Division. He was wounded in his first action with his new unit at Mauny on 26 August 1944 (note date used). His section was leading the 7 Platoon attack towards Chateau Mauny.

In his book, he mentions that he was placed in Corporal Chapman’s section, and that Chapman was an El Alamein veteran. He also mentions, Ginger, a Yorkshireman and amiable platoon runner, also an El Alamein veteran, told the new boys that Chapman was friendly and one of the good guys.

He goes on to explain that Chapman and Ginger were wounded in the Mauny action, the former with a head wound and the latter with a serious mortar shrapnel wound, and both were evacuated with him. He was at the CCS with them when they died.

The only known Yorkshiremen of the six Black Watch men killed were Chapman and Private George A Hildred, so by deduction ‘Ginger’ must be ‘Hildred’ - but Hildred was only 18 years of age when he died and couldn't be an El Alamein veteran.

NB. Five of the six were English and it is not known from where 'Kirkcaldy' hailed; albeit the place of that name is in Fife, Scotland.

He also mentions that Major Mirrielees had been his Company Commander (‘A’ Coy, I believe) in the 1st Bn Tyneside Scottish, during their fighting at Rauray; a place and an action for which that battalion will be forever linked/renowned. Major Mirrielees had been awarded the MC.

All six of these men have graves, as has Trooper Carah of the 1st Northamptonshire Yeomanry (which incidentally, I believe I once read one John Profumo MP served with).

From the foregoing, I am left thinking 'who/where is this Yorkshireman called Ginger?' Tom Renouf was there when he died, but he is not listed in those known killed at Mauny; either above or on CWGC for those dates.

Best,

Steve.

 

Just found this in a memorial to Private George A Hildred, and written by Tom Renouf.

NB. The 'Jacqui' referred to is Jacqui Scales, niece of George Hildred. 'Laurent' is Laurent Lecomte, a local who is closely involved with the 5th Black Watch memorial.

http://www.georgehildred.co.uk/memorial2.html

*
Could this be part of the puzzle?

I would assume that Chapman and Ginger were originally buried in Field graves in close proximity to each other, given that they were close to each other when they died, at the same CCS and on the same day. Maybe that is too simple a deduction?!

Best,

Steve.

 

Only the six men we already know of are named on the 5th Bn Black Watch's Roll of Honour for the battle of Mauny; link: http://www.blackwatch.50megs.com/5thbtn.html

Then I did a more detailed search of CWGC and found this man (who is not shown/shown chronologically in the RoH):

BURKE, ROBERT JOSEPH
Rank: Private
Service No: 2762241
Date of Death: 30/08/1944
Age: 31
Regiment/Service: Black Watch (Royal Highlanders), 5th Bn.
Grave Reference: III. D. 6.
Cemetery: ST. DESIR WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information:

Like the other six killed he is also buried at St. Desir. We also know from the information provided in earlier messages that the 5th Bn were in or around Mauny until 2 September 1944. Ergo, could this man have also been killed there and be the missing 'Ginger'?

Also, found this: http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/50019-pte-robert-joseph-burke-2762241-black-watch/

Forum member Peter Bennett has been looking for information about this man, who appears to have a connection with Farnworth (Bolton). Wrong side of the Pennines, but...???

I have sent Peter a PM to see what he can add!

Edit: I have also noticed that Chapman and Burke are buried next to each other, whereas the others are in separate sections of the cemetery. It is strange that Tom Renouf and other visitors with an interest have not noticed or commented on Burke/this...

Best,

Steve.

 

Steve

I led a tour of Normandy in October 2013, one of my friends is from Farnworth although she has lived in Dewsbury for over 40 years. This man was engaged to a member of her family and she wanted to pay her respects as she had never met him.

Apparently he was a really nice chap.

I will ask her if she has anymore info on him and I will update this thread.

Peter

 

Many thanks for looking in so promptly, Peter; it is much appreciated.

If Pte Burke was Ginger or known as Ginger, served at El Alamein, etc., we may have solved Tom Renouf's 70 year puzzle of what happened to Ginger. That would be nice - so fingers crossed!

I look forward to hearing from you again.

Best,

Steve.