"M2 canister" round for the 37mm M6 gun in the Honey

Discussion in 'North Africa & the Med' started by phylo_roadking, Apr 24, 2014.

  1. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    All, can anyone give me a categorical answer regarding whether or not the British Army issued/used the M2 canister round created by the Americans in 1942 for the 37mm M6 gun in our American "Honey" tanks in North Africa, aka the M3 Stuart?
     
  2. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    PR,

    I have checked a couple of publications that I have on the Stuart and unfortunately came up negative with regards to your question.

    Also checked several web sites but also came up negative.

    Sorry I was not able to be of help.
     
  3. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Smudger Jnr likes this.
  4. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    Actually, not that many, if you compare it to the APC and HE shell deliveries.

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  5. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    A nice find.

    I found a photo in a booklet I have on the M3/M5 and I wonder just how effective it was given that it was rather like an oversized shotgun cartridge.

    Was it intended just for use against close up enemy infantry? as I cannot see it being too effective other than at Close quarters.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  6. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    Smudger, I can't site instances right now but I do know that the canister round was considered highly effective against personnel. It was widely used in the Pacific theater against the Japanese, and as you might imagine it was murderous against the banzai. The 37mm remained a standard anti-tank weapon for the Marines and US Army in the Pacific to the end of the war, and given the scarcity and frailty of Jap tanks it seems clear to me that the value of the canister round was a big reason for the 37mm's survival in that theater. I checked some other boards and read that the British sent their entire stock of 37mm canister to the Far East. This would make sense, as the Stuarts and Lee Grants used in Burma both had the 37mm gun. I would also think that 37mm canister would be useful for clearing Jap anti-tank parties off the backs of tanks. I also read online (stories on boards, unsourced, sorry) that the 37mm canister would chamber in 2-pounder guns and that the 3rd NZ Division in the South Pacific used 37mm canister in their Valentine tanks.
     
  7. Smudger Jnr

    Smudger Jnr Our Man in Berlin

    TTH,

    Thanks for that.

    Regards
    Tom
     
  8. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    Guys, thanks for the above - I expected to find that we imported it, given that it WAS used in the Lee/Grant...

    What I've been trying to tie down is specific use in the Desert in the M3 - it's a pity TTH that there's no by-year breakdown there :( If we could have seen imports before the Lee/Grant arrived, then....
     
  9. Andreas

    Andreas Working on two books

    If it was only created in 1942, that will be impossible. :)

    All the best

    Andreas
     
  10. TTH

    TTH Senior Member

    I don't know exactly when the M2 canister round was introduced. The 37mm anti-tank gun first saw combat in the Philippines during the Jap conquest, but I don't know if canister was available for that campaign. I do know that the 1st Marine Division had canister in time for Guadalcanal and first used it in action at the battle of the Tenaru (August 21st 1942). So, canister might have been available to 8th Army by at least that date. However, if I had been an 8th Army Q officer, I don't think I would have seen much need for 37mm canister. It was a useful round, but only in certain circumstances and those circumstances (massed infantry attacks, anti-tank parties mobbing tanks) seldom occurred in the desert. The 14th Army did encounter such circumstances fairly often, hence the (alleged) British decision to send all their 37mm canister eastwards.
     
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  11. Charpoy Chindit

    Charpoy Chindit Junior Member

    There are references to the use of 37mm canister in Burma. Tom Grounds in 'Some Letters From Burma' mentions that at night in the Admin Box they kept a sentry in the turret of their Lees and a round of canister in the breech.
    Using it wasn't too good for the rifling, I understand.
     
  12. phylo_roadking

    phylo_roadking Very Senior Member

    The date wrinkle is important - for while it makes sense to use it in the Lee/Grant...given its 37mm turret installation AND its 75mm main gun in the hull sponson...

    There's a comment on the A.Kirk Tanks! site that there was an interesting problem with the Stuart/Honey - the turret had no bottom/basket...so the crew had to stand on the fighting compartment floor, and shuffle around the fighting compartment as the turret traversed!

    Now, this normally wouldn't be a problem....but apparently the driveshaft for the Stuart/Honey ran right down the middle of the fighting compartment...so they were having to continually step over it, back and forth, as the turret traversed! So it rapidly became SOP to aim the tank...and then make fine adjustment a few degrees either side of straight ahead by very limited traversing!

    That doesn't sound that important - but it means that the M3's gun wasn't necessarily "free" to engage a sudden threat like an anti-tank gun, dugout, or pillbox. The whole tank would have to stop and centre on the target, or slew round and acquire the target, to use canister on a target of opportunity or immediate threat...which manouver would give an A/T gun and crew a few second's longer to take a better-aimed shot!
     

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