Lost War diary's of 2 North Staffs Jan/June 44?

That's very impressive Gary - it's precisely the story I was told by my mother-in-law, in fact: she said someone came to tell her mother how Neville* died. The man's carrier had had a mechanical problem, so Neville went on ahead and was killed. If I could decipher the Corporal(?)'s signature I might even know who had told her... Now we're on the subject of what was said, I can't actually recall if his wife said he'd driven into a farmhouse, I guess it could have been up to, or even towards. My strong impression has always been he drove into a courtyard of some kind, but I'm aware of how such stories can become distorted.

Anyway, thanks very much for this. And for the patience of others: I appreciate I've rather hijacked a good thread, apologies.

Pat

*only ever known by his middle name - took me ages to work this out when I was looking for his CWGC record!

 

Gary.

The instructions to No 4 Sect of the Carrier Platoon would make sense. The gap between C and D Coys was big and if it needed filling quickly the carriers would have been the only way to do so without robbing manpower from the Rifle Coys who, I am sure, were enduring problems of their own from all the German infiltrations up the river beds.

Interestingly, the Coy positions shown on your map do not match what I have. D Coy seems to be sitting in the same position that I have for No 4 Coy 5 GREN GDS.

Regards

Frank

 

Hi Pat,

The statement is from a Cpl. Simmons. Looks like there were members of the section taken PoW, I'll have to see if there is any correspondence with them somewhere in the file.

I've dug out the relevant section from the after action report:



According to echo-delta the junction the carriers were being sent to is here - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@41.5864658,12.6153096,1409m/data=!3m1!1e3

Frank - the map has North Staff 25th Jan - 7th Feb on the back. The frontline is drawn on the map with an 'as of 7th Feb'. Whether this includes the platoon and company positions I don't know. The after action report mentions a diagram but apart from this map there isn't one that I can find.

Cheers,
Gary.

 

Neville Smith's wife certainly waited a very long time for confirmation of his death - I wonder now if it wasn't until Cpl Simmons was repatriated from captivity. That's interesting about the junction: I had assumed the 'farmhouse' where he was killed was the two buildings some 500m east, where the Via del Tronco turns southwards.

 

Pat,
apologies not required, you have not hijacked a good thread.

Regards
Stu.

 

Hello Stu
I'm researching my uncle's war - he was in Staffordshire Regiment (must have been 2nd Btn North Staffs as he was badly wounded fighting Gothic Line. I've stumbled across this thread and wonder if indeed the official regimental war diary has turned up please? I've even seen it quoted as a source in a Phd thesis from 2006 so hoping its just difficult to find !
Thank you sir....Roland in Ontario, Canada

 

They have Ronald. If I can login on my then I will post some.in It's weird.. It keeps saying cookies have to be excepted before i can log. Never done it before. Do we know which date is was wounded? Need to sort out this laptop. No good using my phone.

Regards,
Stu.

 

Monday January 29th, 2024

Thank you Stuart for your prompt reply and its encouraging to hear that records exist so I may research more about my uncle's service in WW2.

Incidentally, the Ph.D. thesis I read about the Italian campaign (and mentions the war diary of the North Staffs) is on-line and by Christine Ann Bielecki (University College London 2006) - its a through examination of her chosen topic and I can send you a link if you like?

You asked about dates - I've learned that Operation OLIVE commenced August 25th, 1944. I cannot pin the exact time or location but only days later his parents received a dreadful report from Infantry Record Office in Shrewsbury stating that on September 1st my uncle was dangerously ill at Field Dressing Station (Overseas Central Mediterranean)

Private Andrew John ANDERSON Army number 14552895

My mum told me that he spent a long time in a hospital in Florence before being repatriated to a special hospital in Oswestry.

Really grateful for your help and any facts you can help me discover

Roland

PS My uncle John had one sister - my dear mum. Seems more than ironical that her name was Olive the same as this battle on the Gothic Line !

 

He was wounded on 31st August 1944.



There was nothing specifically recorded as to losses on that day.

 

Just for clarity, the war diaries for 2 North Staffords have never been missing. They were all there; it was just the description in the TNA catalogue was wrong.

I'm not sure where the fact they were 'missing' came from but obviously not from anyone who had got the file out.

 

PPS - just found another notification stating he was wounded on 31st August 1944

 

Gary - many thanks sir - reading in the extract diary you sent kindly sent mentions 'trip wires'. This appears to confirm events as we understand them i.e. he'd entered a building with the objective of 'getting' a sniper but there was a booby trap that exploded. He was nineteen years old.

 

They were all there; it was just the description in the TNA catalogue that was wrong. Being wrong has they have probably done in the past causes problems obviously. They will appear to be missing to someone like myself, & any joe-blogs who don't visit has much has you.

Anyway.. They are all there which is all that matters. Bedtime for the missing.

Regards,
Stu.

 

Adams R. G., here is what the divisional history has to say along with only one map that I can show. MAP No. 2 is rather large for showing on this forum. It do's not give you much detail, but its all that they did at the time. 1a say's much. I've included Map No 1 if you need it?

Any chance you can provide a link to Ph.D. thesis? This battalion did NOT DO a history. A Regimental History may have been done? A North & South Staffs may be? If you need map 2? Then I will email it over. It is about A2 size.

Regards,
Stu.

 

Stu

Link to the Thesis I found is................

https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1444544/1/U591850.pdf

 

Stu
Thank you so much for the text about the action August 31st. Where does this come from please?

Please might you email your scan as part of the image text cut off?

Thanks
R

 

Gentlemen,
Your help much appreciated. And I thought Id struck gold earlier by googling Lt. Col (later Brigadier) Gerald Ernest Thubron OC 2 Staffs leading to IWM online documents file 2662 - supposedly his private papers from 2 Staffs advance up Italy. BUT the displayed text is actually all in German and dated 1937 Berlin so some wires crossed?

Does anyone know how to navigate or contact IWM to seek the actual papers of Lt. Col G. E. Thubron please?

 

Try: Contact us there is a form highlighted in red. I used this a few months ago, had no reply and called them. Got nowhere.

 

Thanks - I've used their form - but have little faith sending !
Might be different if message went to a named person ? Maybe?

 

Not sure what you mean by "Please might you email your scan as part of the image text cut off?" I will start a conversation with yourself so that we can exchange email addresses. If you are asking me to crop the map that I can't show due to it being rather large in Mb, and not show the text then I will definitely not do that of which would be (criminal), & I would rather you not do that. If you wish to crop it in parts for what ever use then that is fine. Many thanks for the link. It comes from the following book (see files).

Thought you would like to have a look at the following files. I did another thread on the following files, but for the life of me I can't find it. Can any Mod find it for me please? I've lost a photo that I need. I'm sure it is on that thread if my memory is correct?


Not been back to the hotel since it was presented of which I'm going back this year in May. I've lost contact with Fred Mason. I'm guessing he may well have passed away by now.. What a lovely chap who I had a couple of conversations with over the phone. I never did ask him if he used the following file for the above.? He did another painting of the Flyover.




Fred Mason kindly sent the above. I've a memorial that needs to be posted regarding
the 2 North Staffs. Get a wiggle-on Stuart, & post them. They will follow once off my phone.

Regards,
Stu.