Looking for my Father.

Discussion in 'Royal Engineers' started by Ex Navy, Jul 16, 2015.

  1. Ex Navy

    Ex Navy New Member

    Rather than cause too much confusion, I know who my Father is/was.

    I'm hoping that someone can assist with his WW2 unit.
    On his Release Leave Certificate (dated July 1945) it states that he was a Lighterman B II attached to
    951 IWT OP COY R.E. He apparently participated in the D Day landings, and I believe he once told me that he 'entered' France at Arromanches. Does that mean he operated/landed on Gold? He was a member of the Royal Engineers from 10 May 1943 until 5 October 1945.

    Anyway, I'm hoping that someone can assist with some information regarding the Company to which he was attached etc.

    Regards
    Terry
     
  2. Lotus7

    Lotus7 Well-Known Member

    Hi and welcome to the forum Terry, good luck with your research. Just a thought have you applied to the MOD for his service records?
     
  3. KevinBattle

    KevinBattle Senior Member

    Best way of filling in his Service career is to apply for his Service Records.
    Cost is £30 I believe and can take several months as you'll not be the only one asking!
    In the meantime it might be possible to locate the unit War Diary so you can get an understanding of what his Service Record will add.

    A quick Google doesn't show 951 landing, could it actually be a misread of 961?

    They were in France by October 1944, CWGC has 3 recorded deaths for the unit, one before they left the UK:-
    KELLY, EDWARD PATRICK. Rank: Lance Corporal. Service No: 13017708. Date of Death: 16/03/1944. Age: 46.
    Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers 951 (I.W.T.) Operating Coy.
    Grave Reference: Cemetery: BANDON (KILBROGAN) CATHOLIC GRAVEYARD.
    Additional Information:Son of Edward and Elizabeth Kelly; husband of Hannah Kelly, of Bandon.

    LOCK, EDWARD SMITH. Rank: Sapper. Service No: 14402993. Date of Death: 05/10/1944. Age: 20.
    Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers 951 (I.W.T.) Operating Coy.
    Grave Reference: II. L. 12. Cemetery: BAYEUX WAR CEMETERY.
    Additional Information:Son of James Edward Alfred and Sylvia Lock, of West Molesey, Surrey.

    WHITE, JAMES WILLIAM. Rank: Sapper. Service No: 1584147. Date of Death: 26/10/1944. Age: 28.
    Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers 951 (I.W.T.) Operating Coy.
    Grave Reference: Plot 10. Row C. Grave 5. Cemetery: BOULOGNE EASTERN CEMETERY.
    Additional Information:Husband of Dorothy White, of Laisterdyke, Bradford, Yorkshire.

    One of the Pals on here has put together a superb overview of the Royal Engineers work in WW2, worth a read
    http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/23782-royal-engineers-introduction/
     
  4. Drew5233

    Drew5233 #FuturePilot 1940 Obsessive

    IWT stands for Inland Water Transport
     
  5. RosyRedd

    RosyRedd Senior Member

    Hi Terry - welcome to the forum.

    Going on from the information KevinBattle has posted for you, Joslen's ORBAT shows 953rd & 961st IWT Op Companies are listed amongst other RE units that were classed as Sub-Area units under command for assault phase - 104 Beach Sub-Area HQ & Sig Sec 9 & 10 Beach Groups. There is no information for 951 IWT.

    There are two RE War Diaries, just for a 951 Coy - WO 171/1741 for 1944 and WO171/5689 for 1945.

    If you don't already have a copy of your Father's Service Records, I would also recommend you send for a copy.
     
  6. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Hello Terry and welcome to the forum.
    My father- in- law was in 966 Inland Water Transport.
    Forum member Mike (Trux) is your man who can help with these units. I will send him a private message to see if he can help.

    Lesley
     
  7. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Terry
    Could you possibly post up the release certificate?
    I have found a piece of information which I received from forum member Trux, in which it states that 961 IWT worked to Juno Mike.
     
  8. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    Terry,

    4jonboy has alerted me to this thread and asked me to help. I cannot disobey.

    951 Inland Water Transport Company did indeed exist and did land at Arromanches. It was a part of 4 Inland Water Transport Group which operated barges and tugs in the Mulberry Harbour.

    951 arrived in two groups. An advanced party of 55 men arrived in their PBRs (Powered Barge, Ramped) on D+4. 4 men and a 15cwt truck arrived by LCT on the same day. The main party of 227 men in PBRs arrived on D+8 together with a Car 2 seater.

    More later.

    Mike
     
  9. Derek23

    Derek23 Veterans WW2 Veteran

    Hi Terry,
    I was there and I'm more than happy to help in any way I can. I'm now 91 and my memory is not as it was but I'm sure I'll be able to recall quite a bit of information.

    Derek
     
  10. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Hello Derek and welcome to the forum.

    Could you tell us which unit you were with please?


    Lesley
     
  11. Derek23

    Derek23 Veterans WW2 Veteran

    Hi Lesley,
    My unit was 951 IWT Operating Company RE. I was a pen pusher in the orderly room.

    Derek
     
  12. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Hello Derek, thank you for replying.

    Would you care to tell us something of your service please, the dates you were there and something about the unit you were with? It is always lovely to hear stories of Veterans who served in WW2.
    As you are probably aware, we have a few Veterans who contribute their stories to the forum, and their input is much appreciated.

    Lesley
     
  13. Derek23

    Derek23 Veterans WW2 Veteran

    Hi Lesley,
    I've put a few things down on paper.
    951 IWT OP CO RE was an unusual unit. Around 90% of it's members lived onboard PBR's (power barged ramped). These were flat bottomed River Thames lighters converted to have a ramp and be self-propelled. They had a crew of four usually, a skipper, an engineer and two lightermen, who lived in very cramped but well equipped cabins and they were self-sufficient.
    The unit I assume was formed as a back-up to the Mulberry Harbour at Arromanche. Shortly after D-Day a severe storm damaged the inner workings of the Mulberry Harbour it also damaged the American Mulberry Harbour which was abandoned. The British however began to repair the Harbour and the PBR's which had not been damaged, together with the DUKW's of the RASC ( Royal Army Service Corps), continued to bring vital equipment ashore. When the Mulberry Harbour was in full working order there was little need for the services of 951. Although it stayed at Arromanche for a couple of months in case it was needed, it became a very fragmented unit. Although in later months it had a presence in Boulogne, Antwerp and Hamburg a few weeks after the cessation of hostilities it was disbanded and presumably forgotten about as I have never read about it before.
    I feel that the fact that flat bottomed craft built for the quiet waters of a river, to be navigated across eighty miles of open sea was a great achievement.
    The work that the unit carried out at Arromanche proved it's formation was a wise decision.
    I hope this information is useful to Terry.

    Regards Derek
     
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  14. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Thank you Derek for telling us your story- I know of some members who will be interested in it, especially Trux (Mike) who has done a lot of work on the IWT Companies.

    I hope Terry comes back to this thread as I am sure your contribution will be of interest to him.

    Lesley
     
  15. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    Derek,

    Good to hear from you. It is true while a lot has been written about the Mulberry Harbour, little has been written about the operation of it. I do think that the PBRs played a larger part than you modestly suggest but facts are hard to find. Here are some.

    Working in the Mulberry Harbour were 3 and 4 Inland Water Transport Operating Groups which consisted of:
    3 Inland Water Transport Operating Group
    940 Inland Water Transport Operating Company
    953 Inland Water Transport Operating Company
    961 Inland Water Transport Operating Company
    966 Inland Water Transport Operating Company
    987 Inland Water Transport Light Aid Workshop
    4 Inland Water Transport Operating Group
    951 Inland Water Transport Operating Company
    965 Inland Water Transport Operating Company
    987 Inland Water Transport Light Aid Workshop

    By D+8 Inland Water Transport Operating Companies operated the following:
    6 TID tugs
    80 PBR (Powered Barge Ramped)
    1 60 Ton Self Propelled Floating Crane
    1 60 Ton Dump Floating Crane

    Each company seems to have had twelve PBR organised in four sections of three PBR each. In addition each company had a TID tug. The Floating Crane sections were each attached to one of the companies for administration.

    There was a Barge Pierhead with floating roadway to the shore. This received cargo from PBRs which were used to discharge standard built ships moored inside, and occasionally outside, the breakwaters. It is true that DUKWs were preferred for landing stores since they could deliver direct to dumps but there were never enough and they soon began to wear out.

    I have posted material about the Mulberry Harbour on the Gold Beach thread on this forum but am not good at adding links.

    I would love to hear more from you. Presumably 'pen pushers' had a wider view than the actual crews.

    Mike

    PS.
    My father spent some time based in the Mulberry Harbour with his RAF rescue launch.
     
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  16. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

  17. Trux

    Trux 21 AG

    Yes. Thank you Lesley. Mulberry B starts at post 90 on Page 3.
    I must find out how to add links.

    Mike
     
  18. Derek23

    Derek23 Veterans WW2 Veteran

    Hi Mike,
    Thank you for your reply.
    I'm afraid I have very little more to report. I was not in the operations section, so my comments are mostly based on what I saw and heard.
    I think that much of the published information referred to Mulberry Harbour when it was built up and working to its full capacity. No PBRs of 951 would need a pier they sailed out to supply ships both in and outside the break water, they took on a load and returned to the shore. Admittedly through the quieter waters of the Mulberry Harbour. Being flat bottomed craft they were able to ground on the beach at Arromanche and when conditions allowed the ramp was lowered and lorries were able to take away the cargo. A PBR was capable of carrying a load of up to100 tons. It is possible that the crews of the PBRs would take advantage of a little time ashore while their craft was being unloaded but they were never billeted on the mainland as they lived aboard their craft. This may explain why a previous report said there was no record of 951 landing on Gold Beach. The SPUD piers which were sited in the Harbour were used for the unloading of the supply ships direct as lorries were able to travel to the pier using the floating roadway.
    951 had no direct connection with either the construction or operation of the inner Harbour installation. In fact later after a few weeks it was moved to assist elsewhere. Those who constructed the inner workings of the Harbour were hampered by atrocious weather after D-Day. Which probably meant that it was not a working harbour as soon as it was hoped.
    My apologies for not being able to provide anymore detailed information, my contribution was intended originally to help Terry.
    I would to thank you all for the opportunity to re-call those memories, it has been of great interest to an ageing 91 year old.

    Regards
    Derek
     
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  19. 4jonboy

    4jonboy Daughter of a 56 Recce

    Thank you Derek for posting your memories. It is always a pleasure to hear stories of Veterans-forum members always appreciate their input.

    Lesley
     
  20. dbf

    dbf Moderatrix MOD

    Derek
    Thanks for taking the time to reply on the forum.
    We appreciate anything you can add either to the general understanding or about your service.
    Regards
    Diane
     

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